Let's talk about sex, baby
Aug. 15th, 2008 05:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
andrewduckerA couple of days ago ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cangetmad asked me to define "sex". If you've ever spent any time around lesbians, this is a topic that comes up, usually when someone makes a 'joke' about them not having proper sex (note to self: stop doing that).
Anyway, with a few tweaks (cheers tonancylebov for a couple of pointers), here's my response, laid out here, so that people can tell me how much of a wronghead I am:
I think there are a variety of things that are called "sex", and they form a kind of continuum.
1) Everyone agreed that "penis/vagina interface" stuff is sex. Some people think that this is the only thing that is sex, and that other things are sexual, without being sex. If you overheard someone say "I gave him a blowjob, but we didn't have sex." you'd know exactly what they meant there. Most people would include anal sex here as well - although some people would move it into category two.
2) Expanding the definition somewhat - some people agree that anything involving stimulation of the genitals is sex. So blow jobs are sex, mutual masturbation is sex, cunnulingus is sex, etc.
3) Expanding it even further - some people think that any physical contact which is intended to cause sexual feelings is sex. Which would include nipple-licking, naked massage, extended kissing sessions, etc.
4) Expanding as far as I can possibly think of, you have things which don't involve touching at all, like cybersex or phone sex, or watching "The Triumph Of The Will" together.
And on top of this, some people don't think that it's sex unless it involves an emotional component - because they don't believe that rape is sex (something I find baffling, as (to me) rape is clearly "sex without consent").
Oh, and I've heard all sorts of linguistic hypocrisies around this one - with (for instance) women agreeing that if they did act X with another woman it would be 'sex', but if they did it with a man it wouldn't be 'sex'.
The problem being that "sex" is inductively defined - it's based on experience, and what triggers in your head go off when you're exposed to certain acts/ideas. Which means that people are never going to agree.
To sum up, sex is in the eye of the beholder, and it no more matters whether what you're having is "real sex" or "lesbian sex" than it does whether you're having a "marriage" or a "civil partnership" - i.e. not at all to some people, and a vast amount to others.
cangetmad asked me to define "sex". If you've ever spent any time around lesbians, this is a topic that comes up, usually when someone makes a 'joke' about them not having proper sex (note to self: stop doing that).Anyway, with a few tweaks (cheers to
nancylebov for a couple of pointers), here's my response, laid out here, so that people can tell me how much of a wronghead I am:I think there are a variety of things that are called "sex", and they form a kind of continuum.
1) Everyone agreed that "penis/vagina interface" stuff is sex. Some people think that this is the only thing that is sex, and that other things are sexual, without being sex. If you overheard someone say "I gave him a blowjob, but we didn't have sex." you'd know exactly what they meant there. Most people would include anal sex here as well - although some people would move it into category two.
2) Expanding the definition somewhat - some people agree that anything involving stimulation of the genitals is sex. So blow jobs are sex, mutual masturbation is sex, cunnulingus is sex, etc.
3) Expanding it even further - some people think that any physical contact which is intended to cause sexual feelings is sex. Which would include nipple-licking, naked massage, extended kissing sessions, etc.
4) Expanding as far as I can possibly think of, you have things which don't involve touching at all, like cybersex or phone sex, or watching "The Triumph Of The Will" together.
And on top of this, some people don't think that it's sex unless it involves an emotional component - because they don't believe that rape is sex (something I find baffling, as (to me) rape is clearly "sex without consent").
Oh, and I've heard all sorts of linguistic hypocrisies around this one - with (for instance) women agreeing that if they did act X with another woman it would be 'sex', but if they did it with a man it wouldn't be 'sex'.
The problem being that "sex" is inductively defined - it's based on experience, and what triggers in your head go off when you're exposed to certain acts/ideas. Which means that people are never going to agree.
To sum up, sex is in the eye of the beholder, and it no more matters whether what you're having is "real sex" or "lesbian sex" than it does whether you're having a "marriage" or a "civil partnership" - i.e. not at all to some people, and a vast amount to others.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-15 07:26 pm (UTC)speaking of continua, i was thinking recently that the gay-straight axis should be a triangle, with asexual on the other point. but then "sexuality"'s even less quantifiable than orientation.