Interested in language

[andrewducker]

I can't really talk about this without spoiling it.  Its marvellousness revolves around a simple trick, but if I told you what it was you probably wouldn't bother reading it.

Let's just say that if you have any interest in how language affects our thinking then you ought to read this pece by Douglas Hofstadter.

Many thanks to catamorphism for that.

Comments

[alcippe.livejournal.com]

Wow that was *really* interesting. Thanks!

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

He's a very clever man.

I still remember the effect reading a book in the female third person (if that's the right term) had on me at Uni, though I can't remember the book (a textbook on developmental psychology, IIRC). And it's interesting to note that I've been quietly using they in my professional writing ever since I graduated, and it's *never* been picked up on.

[andrewducker]

I've been trying to work out what the female-third-person sounds like...

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

Well, you know traditional he speak, with he every dam where as examples, and in general context. Substitute that with she and her and so on, as an inclusive term.

It was an educational experience, and very powerful demonstration of the fallacy of male=whole in sexist language.

[andrewducker]

Aah, the White Wolf books tended to alternate back and forth over gender for examples like that.

And there's one system out there that uses "He" for players and "She" for the GM.

[kurosau.livejournal.com]

The only problem is that the crux of this piece isn't actually that the person arguing language is arguing from a racist perspective, but rather he's using words that we're going to take to be racist.

Ultimately, I'm not sure where I sit on the unisex language line, but I'll say it's likely better for it to be unisex than not. The problem is, however, that I don't think we're dealing with any element of racism, perceived, implied, or otherwise. It's the terms that we're having issue with, and I have a feeling that his article wouldn't feel nearly as uncomfortable if he'd have chosen different words that were not so intimately tied with civil rights issues.

Niss, for example, because while the N could refer to negro, I don't think that's the N word most people would imagine.

Also, how does this apply to other systems of language that make even more differentiation? In Chinese, nearly every member of your family has a different and specific title, from Jie Jie for little sister, to Ge Ge for older brother (I'm not so sure on those, it's been a while). This naturally carries over into whether or not your addressing a man or a woman, and also your addressee's relative age to your own.

[lilitufire.livejournal.com]

That's interesting - I *did* actually automatically equate to Negro, rather than anything else - perhaps because the tone of the piece felt old fashioned. I see it now you've pointed it out, but I didn't see it at the time.

[kurosau.livejournal.com]

Granted, it's an assumption I'm making there, but I came about it by virtue of the author's statement about the piece's racist qualities.

[greengolux.livejournal.com]

When I was a kid my parents gave me a walkperson for my birthday, so I could listen to tapes in the car without disturbing them. I was vaguely aware that other people had a different word for them, but in our household they were always referred to as walkpersons.

More recently, I got into a discussion about portable MP3 players with some of my friends. I made some comment along the lines of "I don't have one yet, so if I want portable music I have to use my old walkperson". They cracked up. Walkperson sounds perfectly normal to me.

[andrewducker]

See, in that case, Walkman was a brand name. I'd stick to "personal stereo" which is already in use and gender free.