Interesting Links for 29-01-2023

[andrewducker]

1. 2023 Oscar nominated best movies - with Muppets!

(tags:Muppets movies funny Oscars viaSwampers )

2. How has Brexit changed the UK's wine import business

(tags:UK Europe wine trade doom )

3. Unlearning How White People Ask Personal Questions

(tags:race society questions politeness )

Comments

[simont]

#3: oh, "how do you spend your time" is a nice wording, I may try it.

I used to habitually ask people "what do you do?" as a conversation starter if I'd just met them, with the idea that the question was ambiguous enough to refer to either their Proper Job or some other part of their life, whatever they judged was most interesting or worth talking about. But I found that people overwhelmingly interpreted it as "what's your job?", even if in their own estimation their job was not the most interesting thing about them. So I gave up on that question.

It hadn't previously occurred to me that offering the ambiguity of "your job or something else, whichever you prefer" would also allow an unemployed person to answer without embarrassment. But it's a good point.

[andrewducker]

Yeah, definitely made me think.

Some interesting comments over on Facebook too: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ddtEWd2S2zJPKEk8MAwuBhn3AB7eWhnVuKRz1cmHPXKiD3MhthThFPhehGSvdEdXl&id=100063970328334&sfnsn=scwspmo

(Mostly about how this also applies in the North of England and in Ireland as well)

[simont]

Mmm. And someone there has a similar experience to mine, only even more extreme – they get part way through "what do you do for fun" and instead get interrupted with the details of someone's boring (to them) job. Definitely need to diverge from that wording earlier, is my takeaway!

[cellio]

I sometimes ask "what do you like to do", particularly if I can attach "outside of $context-we-have-in-common". I never thought about this before, but this moves like/fun earlier in the sentence, before "do", so maybe that helps?

Another benefit is that by asking what someone likes to do, I'm inviting the person to share a passion, as opposed to talking about the drudgery of that crappy job and bad manager or whatever. People who want to talk about work usually find a way to add that in.

[calimac]

I don't think I've ever asked anybody what they do for a living. I am so utterly terrible at starting conversational chit-chat that it's never occurred to me to try.

But I think that, if somebody had asked me, "how do you spend your time?" I would have been flummoxed by what it meant. I would have started thinking in terms of "how do I pass the time when there's nothing going on?" and wondering why someone would ask such an odd question. Anyway, the answer would be I read, I listen to music, I play solitaire ... but in terms of what the questioner actually meant it would appear that I was an unemployed layabout.

When I was still of working age I classed myself by my profession, so I had no trouble saying that's what I did for a living even when I wasn't currently doing it.

[wildeabandon]

I tend to phrase it as "What to do you when you're not at church/frequenting dodgy goth clubs/attending weddings/singing in choirs/&c" depending on the context in which we're meeting, which I think makes the openness to answers other than work a bit more explicit (and also means that you can use it with people you meet at work)

Point 3: A Lesson I Need

[dewline]

This is a thing I need to pay more attention to. In terms of race, almost certainly, and more generally as well.

3

[channelpenguin]

Wow. It would never have occurred to me that people would be embarrassed to be unemployed! I don't *think* I even tend to ask that question (I'm appallingly rubbish at small talk), but it's certainly no issue to make sure not to.

It's kinda sad that the default is to define ourselves by our (paying) jobs (or lack of them). And of course it's a class signifier. Grrr.

[anna_wing]

I usually start with comments about the weather, and the state of local traffic and public transport. There's usually no need to get personal at all for a first meeting with someone.

[firecat]

Social anxiety meant receiving typical conversation-starter questions caused me discomfort and so I didn't like asking them either, but that left me with nothing to say which was just as bad. These days, I sometimes go with "How's life treating you?"

[dreamaastrid]

I frequently ask people what they do for a living. I think I'll start asking them either, "So how do you spend your time?" or "What do you like to do?"

The question, "What do you do for fun?" was asked to my brother by one of my friends a few years ago. My brother's response was, "I don't have fun. I haven't had fun since 1987." So that has discouraged me from asking anyone that question.

[andrewducker]

Oh dear. Your brother doesn't sound like he's having a great time!