Good Lord!

[andrewducker]

Seems to be a hot topic, let's take a poll:

[Poll #155241]

Comments

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Was going to answer this, but realised I can't. I have no idea, really, of where I am theologically at the moment. Five years ago, I'd have been able to answer this easily. Now, I can't.

My current views on Christianity are based on the hypocrisy of the people who 'practice' it, not on my personal beliefs. I don't know if I have any personal beliefs right now.

[andrewducker]

Well that's a good place to start from. I mean, the beliefs you grow up with tend to be inherited. So it makes sense to (at some level) throw them away and start from scratch, to see where you end up.

You may well end up back where you started, but at least then you'll be confident that you have the beliefs for a good reason.

[nosrialleon.livejournal.com]

Ditto

Re: Good You!

[wolfieboy.livejournal.com]

Some of these need to be checkboxes and some need to be fill in.
To me, Divinity is both all pervasive and manifesting in each and everything. You, me, even Ashcroft is God. All actions are the actions of God/Gods; there is no act that is not divine.

I'm also finding and re-finding Divinity every day. Although I guess the question is when did you first find it. It would still need to be a checkbox. My spirituality has not changed much, just the religion encompassing it has. I was a Christian; then an Empiricist (science as religion); then Pagan morphing towards Pantheist; now, still Pagan/Pantheist with strong Taoist leanings.

Re: Good You!

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Rape/murder/child molestation is divine? That's a new one on me....

Re: Good You!

[wolfieboy.livejournal.com]

Hey, the Holy Mother Church does it. It must be divine...

But really, since all are Divine, all acts are Divine. That doesn't make them "good" or "right" though.

Re: Good You!

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Ah - so "acts of divinity", to be more precise.

Is it just me, or is saying "We're all Gods" just the same as saying, well, "We're all just normal". I guess I'm kinda missing the point here....

Re: Good You!

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

Hey, the Holy Mother Church does it. It must be divine...

The Holy Mother Church does it? Or members of her clergy do it? It's not really the same thing, is it?

Re: Good You!

[andrewducker]

Is an organisation anything other than a collection of people?

Re: Good You!

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

So if I download porn on my company's computer, the company is advocating porn? If Bill Gates embezzles from his company, Microsoft is guilty of embezzling? If a U.S. citizen murders someone, the U.S. government is committing murder? Of course an organisation is a group of people, but the actions of an individual member are not equal to the actions of the organization.

[aberbotimue.livejournal.com]

whats pantheon

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Lots of Gods, basically. Like in Greek myhs, for example.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

That should say *myths*!!! Darn my crappy typing fingers....

[dapperscavenger.livejournal.com]

Where's the 'when I care it gives me a headache' box?

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I'm rather unsurprised by the responses, although clearly these answers are very far from average (IIRC, most people stick with the faith they were raised in). However, I'm always troubled to see answers like Other people's God(s) are: lies, spread to damn the ignorant. One of my profound hope for humanity is that we will one day outgrow such attitudes.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but that's part of the Christian faith, innit? False idols and all that. If they didn't believe that, then they wouldn't be Christians, and might not possibly have any beliefs.

It's not so much the people, as the religion.

However, even if you believe all other Gods/religions are false, at least if you tolerate people and their beliefs, no harm should come of it. It's tolerance that's important.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I've never understood this. If you think non-Christians are damned and wrong, why does tolerance make sense?

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Maybe "pity" is a better way of phrasing it. 'Sides, the Good Lord tells us we need to convert these heathens, not write them off.

Remember, I'm not a practising Christian any more - I'm just trying to give the Christian, or at least the AOG, point of view.

[adders.livejournal.com]

You're viewing it the wrong way round.

Christ taught that God loves _everybody_, Christian or not, and that we should do the same. Equally, no-one is surely damned until they die. Until then, they can always be saved.

Christianity vies with Islam as the most widely misrepresented and misunderstood religion in the western world right now. Islam suffers because people want to demonise it (unfairly), Christianity because become think they know what it teaches, and thus can't be bothered to check out the reality of the faith (including, sadly, many people who profess to be Christians).

[adders.livejournal.com]

I have no idea why I typed "become" instead of "people". It's probably because I haven't any coffee this morning yet.

[andrewducker]

I don't see how.

The Christian Faith teaches that there only is one God. I don't see how you can believe there is only one God and not believe that talk of other Gods is either lies or mistakes.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I've met several Christians who firmly believe that other people's faiths are simply different names for and different ways of thinking about the Christian God. I think they firmly fall into the category of Other people's God(s) are: also real. But not as real as mine. While can can find this belief occasionally mildly condescending, I don't find it to be actually objectionable.

Oddly, the two most religiously intolerant groups I've found are (in general) fundy Christians and atheists.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

As an atheist myself, I just cannot see that any sort of 'god' type explanation is necessary to explain anything, not even why a lot of people are so firmly convinced by the concept, that's all.

I have no problem with people believing in god(s) [just don't expect me to agree, or even to generally discuss it, as it's doomed to failure and shouting], it's organised religion that is problematic. I'd like to say that religion is Ok as long as people don't let it affect their actions to others, but that would be daft, as many religions say "be nice to people" and "look after the plants and animals" etc. which are all things of which I definitely approve.

I just think that the believers are wrong, but many many any people are wrong about many many many things in life (including me) so I can't really hold it agianst them too much (as long as they aren't off killing at torturing in the name of, but then it's the cats that are despicable in themselves, I don't care much about the motivation!).

I used to be far more strident when younger, but I gave up, as it is pointless. I can only use logic and logic cannot ever prove that something doesn't exist (except in a very limited artificial domain e.g. I can say that there are no records on the Person table of the BRS database with the first name "Alfonse" - but clearly the universe(s?) isn't as small or defined, so I cannot make any such similar statements. I can't say that there never was such a person nor that there never will be [given the current system rules - which change])

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I have absolutely no objection to such expressions, unfortunately I've run into a large number of extremely strident atheists who are actively dismissive of any and all spiritual beliefs.

My primary reason for believing as I do is the rather impressive number of (mostly purely subjective) spiritual and supernatural experiences that I have had. I've never understood why anyone who has not had similar experiences (which includes most religious people I've know) would ever be anything other than a materialist.

Atheist's are all mad

[andrewducker]

I'm an agnostic, and likely to remain as such. I'm not sure I'd start believing even if I were to experience such things. Well, I'd certainly tend more towards them, but I wouldn't be 100% certain they were real, any more than I'm 100% sure they aren't real at the moment.

Wishy-washy fence-sitting - the One True Path.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

And I would consider your experiences interesting, but as physical/psychological phemonena - which, to me are no less fascinating for the more material explanation.

You can't change what someone believes - only they can do that. All we can do is provide facts and let them incorporate them (or reject them).

[randomchris.livejournal.com]

I've tried to do something like this, but there are so many shades of grey in every possible question that I don't think you can do it as a straight poll - what's a God? How do you worship one - does it care? The third question is more straightforward, but 4 could include "through being born into religion, had period of doubt, now have different view of same God", and 5 is tricky. Other people's Gods may also be different views of the same God, thoroughly bizarre, etc. Answers to questions like this are also interdependent to some extent.

It's fun trying, though.

[protempore.livejournal.com]

Everyone who worships cats? Probably right, and those crazy people (ok, just me) who worship Chickens have no idea what they're doing. But they're right. The trees are pretty highly evolved, for gods. Any body worship vodka? That would be a viable decision -- it's a good idea to worship cat litter because it keeps the shit off the floor . . . but if you don't change the litter, the cats will rebel and shit on the floor to tell you to clean the litter box. Is that the god(litter box)'s fault, or your own fault? Oh, maybe Fault is a good idea to worship, I've never known a fault to fail to manifest when called upon. Of course, the righteous may disagree -- and they have the right. Worship them. Do not, and I seriously mean it, do not forget to water your catnip plant or, as it is a god, will punish you by killing itself. Or ... did you kill it? There are a lot of buttons on this laptop keyboard that ought to be worshipped, you know, but don't take My Words for it -- just worship Them. The Words, I mean. And me. And if you have the time, worship You. By Worship I mean it is and you should Be.

It's a good idea to worship It.

You are, Andy, indeed deserving of worship.

[derumi.livejournal.com]

I could only properly answer two of those questions. @_@

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

I find this response: "Other people's gods are also real. But not as real as mine" pretty poorly phrased. Isn't something either real or not real? Can something therefore be more or less real?

I chose it, because it is closest to the way I feel, but I think the option could have been much better written.

I have a faith, and it's, in my opinion, the best way to worship. But faith, by definition, is not possible to prove. Therefore, I don't criticise or condescend any one else's choices of how to worship or not, so long as that person is, or at least strives to be, a good person. If you follow a faith that tells you to mutilate kittens, I will probably think you're doing a bad thing, but if you're Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Atheist, Pagan, or Chicken-Worshipper, it doesn't change my opinion of you one bit. (OK, maybe the chicken thing might make me think you're a bit odd, but that's neither here nor there).

This attitude is what I ended up with after being raised in a Catholic household, and spending 10 of my forumlative years in a Catholic school, by the way. Cheers to the poster who said that Catholics are often ascribed traits that are not universally true.

Trickery.

[egfpigsty.livejournal.com]

To start, let me say that I do not concern myself with other people's salvation. And by that, I mean I do not take it upon myself to judge others with damnation. I am not in charge. I would be a poor judge indeed, if I tried. Certainly, certain acts are condemnable, but even good people do bad things. I myself am quite guilty. Who am I to say that someone should be damned for this or that?

I declined to answer the last question, none of the options supported my views.

While, in effect, I do believe that other peoples' "gods" are lies, spread to damn the ignorant. That does not mean that I believe the ignorant will be damned.

The intent behind their creation has indeed been to damn those who would believe the lies. However, I believe that God is a just god, and gives each person a fair opportunity to the truth. Though, not necessarily in this life.

How could I believe in a God who would damn some tribal native deep in the Amazon rainforest, because the poor fellow never had a chance to learn about God?

No, he may live his entire life in ignorance, but it is my belief that God will give him opportunity (in this life or the next) to learn His good news, and attain salvation.

[kashandara.livejournal.com]

Couldn't make it past question one... need an 'as many as people need but all from one source' option...