andrewducker: (Default)
[personal profile] andrewducker

Date: 2012-02-17 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Harrassment is something I consider to require intent

Interesting. Do you know the phrase "hostile work environment", in the context of harassment cases?

the state of religion entitlement strikes me as being more like the general existence of patriarchy, where people make assumptions about what is reasonably behaviour.

Except the existence of unconscious and unintended bigoted behaviour can *and should* be correctly recognised as harassment. "It's just the patriarchy" is a reason to not have recognised it before, it is NOT a valid reason to keep doing it.

But _mostly_ in the UK it's not there to deliberately keep people down. Obviously, sometimes it is, and I object to that a lot more strongly.

And you don't think the council prayers, voluntary or not, officially part of the proceedings or simply something that the majority group does, are anything *except* a way of creating an us-vs-them in-group out-group mentality? And that there isn't going to be pressure to attend and pay lip service, or punishment for nonattendance?

Because, fundamentally, that's what ceremonial prayer in nonreligious groups *is*, every time - a way of defining the in and the out. It's why Jehovah's Witness children are required by their religion to leave school classrooms when the national anthem is played - because their church works hard to ensure that they are different and "other" to the other children, so they form fewer out-group bonds. It's why Mormons and Scientologists and Amish and JWs "shun" people who leave the church - the threat of losing all your social contacts (see also: why they make you an outsider in the first place) is the threat they hold not only over you, but over everyone else who thinks they might be like you.

And that's why prayers are required at a legislative session: To ensure that everyone present knows who the in and the out are. And now that it's formally illegal to COMPEL group participation, it's gone to "voluntary but we will KNOW and we will JUDGE" participation.

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