And I try, and I try

[andrewducker]

I try to keep some empathy with ordinary people. And I try not to look down on people. And I try to not feel superior.

But when Will Young sells 800,000 copies of his single in one afternoon, despite being obviously completely manufactured, not having a single original idea in his head, and patently being nothing more than a method for record companies to make money, I say it's time to take off and nuke the site from orbit.

Comments

[broin.livejournal.com]

Yup coz all those things have something to do with the music biz.

When you see some musical integrity, flag it.

Besides, he won because of his looks and voice. Original ideas are even _less_ to do with it.

that's the reason

[andrewducker]

It's the fact that ordinary people approve of the music biz that annoys me.

I have no objection to them making money through manipulaiton, I object to people going along with it.

Re: that's the reason

[broin.livejournal.com]

'Ordinary' people (who did you have in mind?) approve of the music biz? What do you mean by 'approve'? Purchase albums?

Of course they make money through manipulation. They manipulate _you_ into buying every CD on your shelf. Same diff?

Yup

[andrewducker]

I've never bought a CD due to advertising. I don't think I've ever bought one due to peer pressure. I've bought them cos they sounded good to me.

It's the lack of imagination or taste, the fact that the curtain's been raised to show the manipulation at the back, and people are still saying "Soulless plastic music? That's what I want!"

Obviously, everyone can make the choices they want. I just don't want to share the planet with some many people making that one.

Re: Yup

[broin.livejournal.com]

You don't believe in souls. What did you mean?

?

[andrewducker]

Um, surely soulless has more than one meaning?

Dashing to Merriam Webster - "having no soul or no greatness or warmth of mind or feeling". Leaving out the soul bit, I'd go with that. A piece that doesn't reflect on, or produce, feeling in a person. Something which skates across the top of emotion, being trivial and simplistic, and not actually going into the depths of things.

Obviously, the 800,000 people who bought copies of the single may well be deeply touched by songs like Evergeen and Anything is Possible, but that just fills me with feelings of horror. The songs and lyrics and music I like aren't insanely popular, the songs that I find facile and pointless are. I'd rather live somewhere where the material that makes me feel was successful, because it would indicate that people felt at least somewhat more like me.

Re: ?

[broin.livejournal.com]

Yeahyeah, I looked up M-W too.

You're making such a value judgement, though. You're assuming that when you listen to, oh, whoever you like, that you're more greatly affected than the 800,000 people listening to a pop song. That's quite an assumption. Your argument has ceased to be when you make that kind of assumption.

Is 'The Wasteland' less valid somehow because it's well-known? How about 'Macavity'? How many people does it take to enjoy a Sisters' song before it gets to be 'meaningless'?

I'd rather live somewhere where the material that makes me feel was successful

Intriguingly idealistic.

Nope

[andrewducker]

You're assuming that when you listen to, oh, whoever you like, that you're more greatly affected than the 800,000 people listening to a pop song. That's quite an assumption. Your argument has ceased to be when you make that kind of assumption.

Nope, I'm not. As I said:

Obviously, the 800,000 people who bought copies of the single may well be deeply touched by songs like Evergeen and Anything is Possible, but that just fills me with feelings of horror.

I never said that they were less touched than I am by the things I'm touched by. I just said that I didn't like it that this was the case.

Re: ?

[broin.livejournal.com]

Hey, here's another one. Show me an artist who doesn't want fame and/or fortune.

Hmm

[andrewducker]

Some want one, some want the other. Some seem to just want their music to be heard.

I like the Zappa quote: "I write the music I like. If other people like it, fine, they
can go buy the albums. And if they don't like it, there's always
Michael Jackson for them to listen to."

Re: Yup

[(Anonymous)]

I think your music is soulless. Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails are manufactured, commercial pap to keep the masses happy. They're just cynical manipulators of the angsty teen and wannabe-teen mindset. They're just the same as the endless string of seemingly identical punky-nu-metaly bands who do songs about hating society and your parents. Nine Inch Nails aren't original, they're shamelessly ripping off Skinny Puppy and Front 242 and even Ministry. And -those- bands aren't original either. I'm sure I could say what Radiohead rip off if I cared about them.

And what do you mean by "music you like"? Do you mean music you like listening to, music you like reading the lyrics of, music you like dancing to, music you like to -own-, music you like making? They're all different.

And if you don't like manufactured bands, then you have a distinct lack of CDs in your collection that you bought from the artist on a CDR with a home-printed cover. If you're releasing music commercially, you're a commercial band. That's what it means. If you're genuinely not in it for the money, then why would you release it for sale at all?

You don't -have- to buy into commercialism unless you want to.

If you release your record on a label, -sell- it, admit who you are, do interviews, then you're after fame and money. While -I- don't think that's a bad thing, you sure seem to. Or are you just afraid that -all- music is like this, and you don't like seeing that? Music is about money and fame for most of the bands out there.

Look at the wide variety of bands who haven't admitted their real names for a few releases/tours, then all of a sudden they weren't famous enough so they "came out".

And you talked about music being original? Jesus Christ, what music -is-?

And is industrial entirely pointless as a genre when one of the essential points of the genre (originally) was to -make- music that was plastic and soulless?

Disagreement

[andrewducker]

I think your music is soulless. Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails are manufactured, commercial pap to keep the masses happy.

I don't know bout Radiohead, but NIN was a project put together by Trent Reznor in his spare time, that he then found a small publisher for and made it big through touring and people liking it. Not even slightly manufactured. Sure, the music companies then push it to try and make money off of it, but he's making music that he wants to.

And what do you mean by "music you like"? Do you mean music you like listening to, music you like reading the lyrics of, music you like dancing to, music you like to -own-, music you like making?

Yes.

Re: Yup

[(Anonymous)]

You bought a CD I told you to buy about a year ago, and I don't think you'd heard it.

Sounds like peer pressure.

Nick

Not that I recall

[andrewducker]

Which CD, please. I can't confirm or deny unless I know which one you mean.

Re: that's the reason

[(Anonymous)]

Music. Business.

Music. Business.

See where this is going?

The music business is a business about music.

All those things about profit are important here.

What's more important is supply and demand.

People wouldn't buy it if they didn't want it. Music no one likes doesn't sell. People buy it because they -want- it. You don't need to be afraid.. just stand up and say "I don't understand people's taste in music!" Yes, -some- of them might buy it because other people do or something.. but a lot buy it because it's the kind of music they -like-. It's what being popular is all about.

And this is what scares me.

[andrewducker]

It's because people like it that I am scared. I dislike sharing the planet with people with that kind of taste.