How do you negotiate with crazy people?

[andrewducker]

• 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
• 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
• 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
• 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
• Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

From

I mean, I know a lot of, say, Conservatives in the UK have beliefs I don't agree with.  But the vast majority of them, so far as I can tell, just have different experiences to me, and different opinions about how things should be organised.  They don't believe that the leader of the oppositon is the fucking antichrist, or other things that can be disproved by 30 seconds with Google.

Comments

[meihua.livejournal.com]

I'll just sit in the naughty corner then.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

Cas. You're acting like a twelve year old. I know that you're better than that.

[meihua.livejournal.com]

Well, no, not really. I don't actually feel particularly harshly towards andrewducker here, but this post could do with some gentle mocking.

I think it's likely there's a bit more going on here than my tone being outrageous and hurtful. One, it's not - "twit" is hardly on a par with the amount of scorn andrewducker is pouring on those "idiotic" Republican voters - and two, it's not like "those crazy Yanks" is an uncommon narrative in geek circles. What does it take to uproot that?

Do you have a better suggestion on how to respond to, "I think you were mean so you are wrong"?

[andrewducker]

Nobody is saying "I think you were mean so you are wrong". What I am saying is "You are not engaging in a way that I find likely to lead to any kind of useful results. I have a lot of other things I can spend my time on, responding to insults and baseless accusations is not on my list of priorities."

I never insulted any individuals, and accusing me of laughing at people because other people do isn't going to get you very far either.

[meihua.livejournal.com]

Dude, I think that if I was one of the Republican voters you're discussing and I and read this, I'd think you were a posh twit laughing at me. That's not the same as me thinking you're a posh twit. Because you're asking, "How do I negotiate with them", I'm trying to represent what - to my best understanding - are the problems of going in with that attitude.

I'm really not trying to insult you here.

[andrewducker]

This piece isn't aimed at the republican voters though. This piece is me venting my frustration at the situation. I don't think I have any Republican readers, let alone any who would endorse any of those opinions.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

There is a difference between his refering to the views as idiocy, and claiming that they're all idiots - plenty of smart people believe stupid things. (c.f. our past selves - probably also our present selves)

Do you have a better suggestion on how to respond to, "I think you were mean so you are wrong"?
"...so you are wrong" != "...so I'm not willing to engage whilst you're behaving like this". A better response to the latter is "Okay, here's my point without the insults".

[meihua.livejournal.com]

I don't agree with you here and I'm not sure how to explain in what way. I think we've got a really different approach to this kind of conversation.

[kurosau.livejournal.com]

I think the problem that you're falling into is another one of stereotypes. The idea of Democrats and anyone agreeing with them being posh twits is the same exact kind of stereotype as the toothless Republican hick. It's false and basically derailing to the argument.

The way we deal with these sorts of situations is to continue as is being done, and to offer good news sources and truth to dispel misinformation. Yes, it sucks that polling shows that some people hold some really ignorant views. But some of those views are anywhere near as crazy if you look at them through the lens of authoritarianism. The mindset that supports the Republican party most fervently is going to divide the world into two camps. Us and The Other. Obama is The Other, and he's in a place of power, and he's the leader of the opposition, and for a long time the religious right in America has been pushing the idea that the end times are coming.

In that light, suspecting that he's the anti-christ, while still pretty goddamn despicable, seems like a lot less water for them to cross.

It is reasonable to say that such people are crazy, because there's no way you can engage with them in the debate of 'is Obama the anti-christ' and such. But it is probably a better idea to offer better information instead of calling them crazy.

[meihua.livejournal.com]

The idea of Democrats and anyone agreeing with them being posh twits is the same exact kind of stereotype as the toothless Republican hick. It's false and basically derailing to the argument.

Well, of course. I said that this is the messaging received by some of the voters the OP is discussing. Of course it's misleading stereotypes, that's what messaging is.