If you vote Tory then you're voting for homophobic scum

[andrewducker]

Because you're voting for people that believe that lesbians shouldn't be allowed IVF.

And no, there is no excuse.

Edit: Actual quote from the debate
It is in the interests of every child to have a mother and a father, but if no father is present—as is, unhappily, the case for many children today—a male role model should be available. For that reason, I, personally, do not regard the substitution of "supportive parenting" for "father" as sufficient. The reference to the need for a father, which has not been reflected in the code, should be re-cast in the legislation as "the need for supportive parenting and a father or a male role model."

Edit 2: As has been pointed out, they are, in fact, misogynist scum, not homophobic.  Sorry about that.

Comments

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Oh no! Not all lesbians, just the sort of man-haters who won't say that their parenting is intrinsically incomplete without a man.

I'm interested, though, that the Guardian chooses to leave the equal exclusion of single parents out of their report. More emotive and confrontational that way.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

But if their claim is that all children should have a father figure, surely they also have to go after drunken one-night stands?

Bah. I want a march on Westminster, complete with waved turkey basters.

I also want my citizenship before these people get in and fuck with the Home Office, because I doubt my Living In Sin visa category is going to be part of their 'family values'.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

But if their claim is that all children should have a father figure, surely they also have to go after drunken one-night stands?

And certain ex-tory ministers.

Check out this chap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Parkinson%2C_Baron_Parkinson

[fjm.livejournal.com]

That should be ex, tory ministers.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

Huzzah for family values! Scum.

For a moment I read 'sadist Ian Hislop' but I think that works too.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

That's the point. This gets picked up as an attack on lesbians when actually it's far more (statsitically) an attck on single mothers. As noted below, it's misogyny nmot homophobia but the RC chucrh can justify a stance against lesbians (unnatural!) and not against single mums (the virgin Mary!!!!) It's all about social control of scarey women really. Sigh..

[meaningrequired.livejournal.com]

From reading it and not paying much attention, this is what I also assumed...

...actually it's far more (statsitically) an attck on single mothers

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

I think that article, well, especially the title, rather exaggerates what the guy said. I don't agree with his views (and think that "supportive parenting" is a good standard), but he was being a lot less strident than it makes out, and (certainly in a radio interview) seemed keen to point out that he did not want to exclude all lesbian couples from IVF as a matter of routine. In the debate he specifically says that he doesn't propose a requirement for the child to have a legal father.

I agree with you that his proposals are likely to be discriminatory in effect, but I don't think your summary is fair on the basis of what he said.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Conservative voter.

[andrewducker]

Not a legal father, but he's insisting that there has to be a male role model before allowing IVF. So, basically, saying that lesbian parents aren't good enough unless they have a man around the place. If that isn't homophobia, I don't know what is.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

I think it'd probably sit more closely to misogyny than homophobia, actually.

[robhu.livejournal.com]

It'd be nice to see both sides of the debate say "According to these peer reviewed studies I think...", but no one ever does that. It seems to always be assumption and ideology.

Even though I agree with the ideology of 'the good guys', I think our case should be made on the basis of scientific evidence - not just saying it is discriminatory.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

We're going to see more of this shit over the next two years.

Because? The UKIP having pretty much imploded, the territory on the right is pegged out between the Conservative right wing and the BNP. And everyone is shit-scared of the BNP prospering (and rightly so). So the Tory centre is going to go back to wooing the right, and it's the course of least resistance for them to slip into their old habits of bashing single mums/yoof/gays/weirdos.

Unless we give them an earful.

Don't keep this to your LJ friends list. Write to your local Conservative parliamentary candidate and tell them exactly why you won't be voting for them. Do it now, and loudly, and eventually they may get a clue. Which is important because, while it won't make much difference here in Scotland, those people are almost certainly going to be the next parliamentary majority in Englandshire.

[matgb]

the Tory centre is going to go back to wooing the right, and it's the course of least resistance for them to slip into their old habits

Not sure about this—Cameron is very carefully tacking to the centre on most issues and is following a classic Downsian strategy.

But, like with Blair on some issues (like fox hunting and Lord reform) there will be some policies and announcements to appeal to the 'core' to keep them happy.

But yeah, writing letters to Tories is the way to go, their members really do need to wake up and smell C21 a bit more.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

Not quite accurate, though I can see why you'd think that. the current HFEA says the "need for a father" must be taken into account. The Guidance says this can be met by having male friends or relatives around (like, er, you:) The Tories are it appears sticking to that position, much as they may dislike it - note in your quote "father OR male role model". No one is saying lesbians (or single women!!) should be banned from IVF - more because of the bad PR than anything else, but still.

Soomn you will turn INTO a lesbian :-P

[andrewducker]

But they are saying that a pair of women aren't enough - there has to be a token man about the place. Which is clearly misogynist.

[robhu.livejournal.com]

Err.. if it is true that children are far more likely to be better adjusted if they have a male parent figure around, then why is recommending that a male parent figure be around 'hatred of women'?

Why is everyone so obsessed with their own rights and ideologies that they have completely lost sight of the consequences on others? If that previous paragraph were true (which I doubt, but no one cares about the evidence here do they?) then damn those people who want kids without such a role model - the 'rights' of a child to be brought up well outweigh your 'right' to have a child. (insert complex infinitely long discussion here)

[robhu.livejournal.com]

To summarise: That isn't 'clearly misogynist', that's ridiculous.

They might be wrong in recommending a man is around - maybe it makes no difference, but I see no evidence presented that they're wrong - so to say they clearly hate women is clearly ridiculous.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

Well I've commented that below. Misogyny is quite seperate from homophobia. Actually, although I don't think it should be in the legislation as any kind of prior condition, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that children raised in a one-gender family benefit from contact with the other gender. But naturally, they all GET that! at nursery if not before..

The original "need for a father" provision was an aberration anyway - one of these crazy amendments thrown in by a wacky HL at the last moment. And that was in 1990!!! I really don't actually think this is Tory policy - both sides want this provision quietly removed. It's individuals, and becauise of the stem cell controversy I understand both sides have allowed MPs a free vote on the HFEA amendments (though I could be wrong and it might just be stem cells that has the free vote.) Don't make a conspiracy out of a crisis..

Also and finally (got work to do you know) it's interesting that no one has spotted that underlyingly this is about not sex or homophobia but money. When the 1990 Act was passed there was tremendous worry that the state was allowing the creation of lots of babies with no MAN to SUPPORT them (as the donors get exculpated from CSA.) who would then be a drain on the state.. like all single mums you see -- that is why this is far more prejudice against single mums than lesbians. that hasn't happened of course but it's fascinating to see how everything comes down to money on the end. there is a vast amount written about all this if people are interested...

[johncoxon.livejournal.com]

"Tory MPs will be given a free vote on the bill at every stage in the Commons." Unlike Labour, which are whipping except in the line-by-line reading. So, your statement is incorrect - if you vote for a Tory candidate who is misogynistic, you are voting for misogynist scum. If you vote for a Tory who isn't, you aren't.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

there are exceptipns at the Labour end too - I read today that Ruth Kelly is a devout Catholic and has been given permission to skip the votes.

[andrewducker]

In this case the person making the statement is their secretary for health - i.e. the person who will be setting their policy on the matter...

[johncoxon.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am well aware of that, but it is not being whipped, so party policy doesn't affect your MP's vote.

[andrewducker]

Oh, as a correction - I finally got round to checking, and Labour seem to have had a free vote as well.

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

Every major political party that has said things against gay parenting always somehow forgets that single parents can only provide one gender role model - it's funny how they decry gay couples for not providing both a mother and father and shut the hell up about single parents.

If you're voting for an MP who follows the wishes of his electorate then there's a pretty good chance you'll be voting for homophobic scum regardless of party.

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

Good point.