Sex

Apr. 25th, 2008 08:56 am
andrewducker: (overwhelming firepower)
[personal profile] andrewducker
I've read a lot of opinions on the whole boob debacle over the last few days. The absolute best one is here. It's long, but that's what makes it worth reading, because it captures the complexity of both that particular situation and real life in general.

Date: 2008-04-25 08:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heron61.livejournal.com
Indeed. Thank you for the recommendation.

Date: 2008-04-25 08:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robhu.livejournal.com
I'm just amazed (although perhaps I shouldn't be) at how many people have come out to bash anyone who thought [Bad username or site: theferret' / @ livejournal.com]'s idea wasn't something that should have him crucified. I said something like that (although I don't personally like the idea I think people should be allowed to do it if they want) and got buried under a torrent of rage.

Date: 2008-04-25 01:06 pm (UTC)
ext_16733: (Default)
From: [identity profile] akicif.livejournal.com
Careful! You mean [livejournal.com profile] theferrett....

Replying to your actual point, though, the problem is that it if people want to do something like that in a space with a previously-agreed set of social rules it's going to cause all sorts of problems: so an OSBP room party is one thing, but taking over public space at a con is right out.

And you don't want to have to tidy up the mess when someone who doesn't know what's going on tries to join in....

Date: 2008-04-25 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackmanxy.livejournal.com
Yeah, I spent the majority of yesterday arguing with people who believe that [livejournal.com profile] theferrett is a horrible, misogynist monster and that the OSBP was nothing more than a cheap excuse to let a bunch of poorly-socialized geeks feel up on some boobies. Even saying that I agreed the OSBP was a bad idea (and I think it was in implementation, though not so much in concept -- not that I was going to tell them the latter part) wasn't enough. You had to express the same kind of outrage, disgust, and hostility toward [livejournal.com profile] theferrett they had in order to not be accused of "defending a vile idea."

It was a fun day, let me tell you.

Date: 2008-04-26 12:43 am (UTC)
zz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zz
"defending a vile idea."

misread as "defending a vagina".

Date: 2008-04-25 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
Thanks. It was a brilliant essay with worthwhile comments, and I wouldn't necessarily have found it otherwise.

Date: 2008-04-26 09:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
Oh, and on a related note, I'm interested that I've yet to see someone commenting on the disastrous compound you get when you add the Open Source Boob Project to The Geek Social Fallacies.

Date: 2008-04-26 12:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
I think it's excellent because it highlights what would happen in a situation where you have three stances: on, off, and... maybe-not-asked-yet, and exactly how that middle-ground would end up being interpreted. Also re: permission see my comment above regarding GSF1.

Date: 2008-04-26 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
How do you find out whether someone has a stance on being asked?

Date: 2008-04-26 12:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
I actually just thought it was a fun entry, and wasn't planning to express my feelings on the whole thing. But here goes: I can see exactly how the whole thing happened, I've been in similar situations/games/agreements in similar party/gathering events which in hindsight always felt sleazy, counter-productive, and ultimately objectification masquerading as sexual freedom. I don't care how open and communicative that particular group of people were, or how 'enlightened' - and reading [livejournal.com profile] theferrett's post on it I found him from his language-use to be anything but, whatever his intentions and genuine decency underneath (which I'm sure he is).

Furthermore, speaking from years of experience of people who think it's okay, in any situation and environment, however casual or unfamiliar their relationship to me personally, to ask me what I do in bed purely because it's with a different gender from most, no, 'just a question' is not always automatically okay just because it doesn't entail actual harrasment or insult.

And again I say, add OSBP and the GSFs and look where either colour of badge gets you.

Date: 2008-04-26 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
I think most of the damage was caused by [livejournal.com profile] theferrett's textbook misogynistic objectifying language all the way through the post. I think I fell a little in love with [livejournal.com profile] tablesaw when I saw his commentary on it.

And yes, you're right, I'm quite obviously okay about it. But actually I was more using me as an example - every lesbian you know has had to put up with these questions. I actually get them less than most, I assume because no one wants to think about fat girls having sex. Which sort of goes to prove where the supposed innocent spirit of enquiry actually tends.

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