Nigger

[andrewducker]

So, I had a falling out with someone.

It happens.

I used a word they found offensive. They tried to explain to me, I tried to explain to them.

Neither of us was _right_. We just differed in our opinions over appropriateness and context.

I tried to get through to them, to explain my point of view.

And I failed. And this disappoints me, because I wouldn't have made the effort if I didn't consider them a worthwhile person to talk to. They wouldn't have been on my friends list if I wasn't interested in what they had to say.

What also disappoints me is people who then decide that because we had a disagreement over something that they consider trivial, that she was an idiot, or not worth listening to, or that her opinion didn't matter.

nhw asked me if I'd feel the same about an icon with the word "Nigger" in it. And he's right to, because, to the person I was talking to, the word "Retard" was just as bad. And I know that more people will feel the word "Nigger" is unusable, in any context. It might get across more strongly the fact that this person found what I was saying reprehensible, no matter what justifications I might make about irony.

Now, _I_ don't feel that way. And that's my choice. I have to make my own judgements about word usage, context and what's reasonable. There are some words and contexts I'm fine with, and some I'm not.

But I wouldn't attack someone for being more offended than I am, or dismiss them for pointing out usage that they found offensive.

And I wish you wouldn't either.

Comments

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

Now, _I_ don't feel that way. And that's my choice. I

That's an interesting comment. Do you think how you feel about things is a conscious decision? Or you can make yourself feel differently?

I find that I *can't*, so while I might want to like something (like a TV show a lot of friends enjoy) or believe something (like when I wanted to believe in a god) I can't. My beliefs, likes and emotions tend to dictate to me rather than the other way around. I know that to some extent you can repress your feelings and behave as you feel is more appropriate and that given time opinions, feelings and beliefs can alter - but your statement seems to suggest you find it easier to make a transition between those states if you decide it's worthwhile.

[andrewducker]

Aah, free will.

On the one hand, no, I don't think that my tastes are something I have any choice about - they're feelings, the axioms from which things flow.

On the other hand, they can be changed, and I've been persuaded into changing my taste before, by having hidden depths or overlooked facets shown to me (Which is what I was looking for in the original post).

And you're correct to pouint out that "That's my choice" isn't right - "That's down to me." would probably sum it up better. Or "It's _my_ opinion that counts."

[rosamicula.livejournal.com]

Well if you didn't want people to dispute, you shouldn't have opened up a post asking for comments, should you?

What were supposed to comment on, if not that person's position and the way she expressed it? Her point of view was very vehement, presumed to speak for others, and was more than a little holier-than-thou. I took issue with that because it was a public post in which you actively sought comments.

[andrewducker]

It wasn't the disuputation (I'm all for informed debate and arguments), it was people stooping to insults and glorying in her being driven away.

I thought your comments were good, to be honest - taking issue with the way she was coming across wasn't the problem - I should have been clearer.

[rosamicula.livejournal.com]

Fair enough:-)) Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick and chewed it.

[pickwick.livejournal.com]

I apologise, then, for implying she was stupid, but I stand by the fact that I wouldn't want people on my friends list who were that easily offended, and weren't satisfied to just say they were offended and why, but demanded that I remove the offensive post, and left in a huff when I didn't.

FWIW, if it was in the same context as "retarded" in that icon, I wouldn't have a problem with "nigger" either. In fact, there are no words that I find intrinsically offensive.

[trav28.livejournal.com]

Apologies if I came across as tactless. The whole situation seems quite bizarre but to have someone defriend you over such a trivial but well argued issue (on your part) leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

[guyinahat.livejournal.com]

I did refer to idiots, but was meaning the people she thought might take it seriously/be influenced by it rather than herself.

[mirukux.livejournal.com]

i've pretty much the same sentiment as yourself on the whole context thing. the situation with 'nigger' is comparible to that of 'dyke'; there's the fact that the terms have been reclaimed somewhat, albeit much more so in the latter case, but there's also the interesting differences in their usages, given the obvious differences in the social groups they relate to and are used within, both in the difference (or lack of) in outward apperance and number of when compared to the general type of person that was using the word (WASP?). and how can one forget the term 'gay' which also suffers the same issues.

[cx650.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I offended or upset you in any way but my opinion stands. I don't think your disagreement was trivial. Anyone who appears intelligent and educated yet refuses to accept the kind of explanation you offered and also denies that certain elements were addressed when they were there 'in black and white' is imho being stupid on purpose and therefore unworthy of your consideration.

As to demanding the removal of something from YOUR OWN journal! Well, that is something that would make me just a bit obstinate.

[chuma.livejournal.com]

"But I wouldn't attack someone for being more offended than I am"

See that's the double standard. You didn't try to tell her off for being offended, but she did try to censor you because you weren't. I dunno I just think political correctness has now become such an obsession with some people that it has crossed the line from well-meaning to oppressive. It is just unfortunate that the lady in question was unwilling to debate with anyone who brought up the issue of censorship and when you shy away from genuine counter-arguments then it weakens your own stance.

[andrewducker]

I might attack someone for being _less_ offended than I am. In fact, I did so about three days ago, when someone talking about Battlefield 1942 referred to Ghey-mores (meaning Claymore mines) and I asked them to remove the homophobic language. Which they then did, and apologised as they'd done it without thinking. Of course, he might have been able to explain it to me in a way that made me consider it reasonable - I doubt it, but anything's possible.