(no subject)

[andrewducker]

I meet a guy, usually under benign circumstances, and we become "friends," we hang out, we go to dinner, movies, we have the conversations about our feelings on the opposite sex without directly talking about how we feel about each other. The relationship goes like this long enough so that I get comfortable, I think, Cool, I have a new friend. I don't think he's interested in being more than my friend, because if he was he would have tried to kiss me, offered to buy me dinner, done something that was more than just friendly. Sure, some part of me secretly wonders why. We're both single, attractive adults, but I'm happy having a new friend who won't talk in the middle of movies and will listen to my stories.

Then it happens, it always happens. Maybe there's too much beer involved; maybe, as in the latest case, there's too little electricity -- whatever. He makes his move. It doesn't matter whether I end up making out with him or I say something along the lines of I'd rather preserve our friendship, because right then, the friendship is over. It never turns into that romantic-comedy mushy romance of my lifetime crap. Either I call too much after that because I still think we're friends or, horror of horrors, I might be hoping that there was more to this than a one-night stand and he thinks I'm being clingy or he gets clingy or I hurt his ego or whatever. It never works out; we never can remain friends.

Observations from the crowd?

Comments

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

Not universal truth, or bisexuals would never be friends with anyone.

[andrewducker]

True, but maybe it's a guy/girl thing. Guy's feel the need to conceal the way they feel to avoid driving off the women. Eventually the feelings can't be supressed any more and then everything changes.

[es.livejournal.com]

But why does everything have to change? Maybe it's because of how I view sex and trust, the act reinforcing the feeling; it doesn't have to mean more than that, though it can. But I don't understand why it always has to be such a... Big Important Thing. Sex shouldn't be done lightly or without proper forethought of why, but that doesn't mean it can't be for simple fun and joy and laughter.

- ES

PS: I read your posts through ArkhamRefugee's friends-list, as a placer. :)

[andrewducker]

I'd tend to agree with you - people should definitely think before they act, and realise that their actions have consequences. But it can all still be fun.

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

We do?

No one told me that I was supposed to do that...

[andrewducker]

Sigh. Since when were you even slightly a typical guy?

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

I hope I'm not a typical guy. The human race is doomed if I am.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Or, of course, it's the feelings themselves that change. Guys, frankly, operate on two base levels - immediate "wanna fuck" physical attraction, and then something deeper that involves trust and understanding.

Sometimes, when the first isn't there, they enter into a frienship with a girl who is undoubtedly incredibly nice and easy to get on with, little realising that the 'something deeper' lurks just round the corner.

It's like a little switch inside us, that suddenly, with no warning, gets flicked, and all of a sudden we're thinking "Hey, she rocks, she laughs at my jokes, we spend loads of comfortable time together and lets face it, she's incredibly, femininely cute - why the hell aren't we sleeping together?"

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's what makes it so fun!

[weetanya.livejournal.com]

that was well-expressed. i understand the moment of awkwardness, it suxors.

:(

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

I like the way you don't explain :) But I thought you lived with tisme? Oh god, more poly ? {sigh}

[andrewducker]

Oh, it's not me. That's an Agony Aunt thing from Salon.

And I'm not Poly. I am complicated tho. I'll explain on Friday. Shortly before I kidnap you, of course.

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

Thanks god for that, I was just wishing in the bath that someone would take me away from all this :)

Moi, je suis devastatingly simple par contraire. (For "simple" read "single ". Or mayeb "simple" times two..)

[andrewducker]

Ooh, baths. I so miss a decent sized bath. I've only go a shower (ripped out the bath and put in a shower instead, because there wasn't space or cash for a decent sized bath).

I'm kinda single, but still sharing a room with the ex. We've agreed that she will continue to live with me until she finished saving up for her round the world trip (several months). It's certainly an unusual arrangement (although experience has shown me that the majority of arrangements are unusual), but it seems to work, although it does make life a little straightjacketed until she heads off.

[wordofblake.livejournal.com]

I was wondering about that, it seemed odd. It didn't sound like you

[nickys.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's possible to remain friends after a one-night stand, but it takes a bit of negotiation, and, importantly, non-fragile egos on both sides.

Both parties need to be able to deal with the fact that they are not being chosen as a longer term partner, and that can be hard to deal with, even when it's somebody you know isn't right for you.
Rejection still hurts, even if you know it's for the best in the long run, and you have to get past that pain before you can be friends again properly.

[andrewducker]

Good point - it takes self-confidence on both parts, which is rare. At least, very few of my friends seem to have much in the way of it.

Maybe I just know too many goths...

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

That might be it.

I, on the other hand, have an ego the size of the planet and can cope with anything :-)

[missedith01.livejournal.com]

Excellently put.

I think if you can persevere it's often worth it. There's nothing like the comfort of being comfortable with an ex, in my opinion. All that potential sexual attraction opened up, played with, dealt with, well in the past, and you can just get on with the rest of your lives.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Heh - I got married to my second-ever one night stand.

Never did get the hang of that one night stand thing....

[rahaeli.livejournal.com]

Either I call bullshit, or I'm luckier than I ever knew. I've *never* had this problem.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I've never much seen the point of one-night-stands. Then again, I mostly only tend to become sexually interested in folk I'm in love with.

Falling in love with friends makes sense, and I've had fairly good results with it. The tricky part is when one is still getting to know someone and the definition of the relationship is not clear. In such cases, if my initial intuition that this person is someone that I'd would be highly compatible with seems correct, I tell the person I'm interested in them. At this point odds seem to be about:

45% chance they say they are not interested and become sufficiently freaked out about the fact that I'm interested in them that the friendship rapidly falls apart.

45% chance they are not interested in romance but we continue to have an excellent friendship.

10% chance that they are also interested in me and things become romantic.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

I've never much seen the point of one-night-stands.

The sex.

Er... that's it, really.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Sex w/o love has always seemed fairly meaningless to me and also sex (for me at least) is always far better after one is experienced at doing it with someone, otherwise I have far less of a clue about how they react, they have far less of a clue how I react, and in general the whole thing is less enjoyable. IME, there are exceptions, but they are rare.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Sex w/o love has always seemed fairly meaningless to me

Pleasure is never meaningless to me. There are things that are better than pleasure, but pleasure is a definite good in itself, worth experiencing for its own sake. A bar of Valrhona milk chocolate, 41% cocoa solids, is 8 oz of pleasure for its own sake: as is (or can be) a one-night stand.

sex (for me at least) is always far better after one is experienced at doing it with someone

Sex can be good with a partner who knows you and you know her: it can also be lousy. Sex can be good with a partner who you never met before: it can also be lousy. Good or bad sex depends on so many factors. I'm not disagreeing with you that supremely good sex happens when both of you know and care about the other one: just that this is not the only way to have good sex.

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

I've had both good friendships that evolved into good relationships and male friends that I knew had a crush on me but who also knew that I wasn't interested in more than friendship with them. It does make things a bit awkward for a bit if a male friend makes an advance and gets rebuffed, but with a little bit of tact it can be smoothed over.

I even had a male friend who totally spooked me out one time by making advances on me kinda forcefully after he broke up with his girlfriend, but even though I was quite literally scared for my safety that night, we remained friends afterwards.

My husband was my friend for about a year and a half before we dated, and my ex, who I dated for five years, was my friend for about three years previously.

So, to sum it all up, my opinion is that it can happen that romantic feelings can mess up a friendship, but they don't have to. And that if you are friends with a girl and want it to go farther, get up the nerve to tell her without making it a huge deal (Hey, Blah, do you think it would be weird if we went out on a date some time?) and accept it with good grace if she just wants to be friends.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I generally just jumped people as soon as I felt the urge (well, you know, I might wait for a slightly more private place). Perks of being female I suppose :-) If we all did that then there woudln't be a problem.

Nobody that I was friends with, then slept with seemed to fall out with me or stop talking to me (not even Chris C - we always still talked [shouted, fought] maybe that was the problem :-) )

I am famously oblivious to people being interested in me, though, so I suppose I miss a lot of the first stage for that reason too.

Sex isn't a big deal, either its presence or absence. I don't have much of an ego that way - if you don't fancy me, I won't get upset and I won't stop talking to you. Not everybody likes the same thing - like pizza toppings or whatever.


Of the men I have known for a long time, there have been the ones I fancied but weren't into me, the ones that were interested in me but I wasn't in them (or didn't notice) and the ones where there was mutual interest. Probably on an even split. I can't recall that anybody ever fell out with me over it. (Well apparently Martyn Jack did, but I never noticed).

In the wise words of George Micheal......

[taromazzy.livejournal.com]

Sex is natural
Sex is good
Not everybody does it,
But everybody should.

Think that says it all, really :~>

Re: In the wise words of George Micheal......

[wordofblake.livejournal.com]

But not with just anyone

there've got to be some kind of standards!