Long-term view

[andrewducker]

The answer, of course, is (and if you're reading down the page in reverse order I recommend skipping down one entry) that finding a happy medium is a bitch.

The simple solution is to take a long-term utilitarian view. Don't be reliable because you want to be nice, but because you want to be viewed as reliable. Keeping your word is a good thing because it means that you're trusted. If you want people to compromise with you, then you have to learn how to compromise.

Learning not to do the thing you want to do right now so that you can do the thing you want to do in the future is a vital part of growing up. Most people are terrible at it. I'm not great at it (I usualyl know what the right thing is, but think I can compromise myself more than I actually can).

And there are always situations where you cannot win - places where you can't do what you want to do and have people like you for it. In which case you have to make up your own mind, take responsibility and live with the shit that it stirs up. You have to decide whether the friends you lose are really the people you want around you, and whether the thing you want is really worth all the fuss.

It's bloody hard being an adult, making your own decisions, living with the results and not blaming other people for how your choices turn out.

I think it's worth it.

Comments

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

The simple solution is to take a long-term utilitarian view. Don't be reliable because you want to be nice, but because you want to be viewed as reliable. Keeping your word is a good thing because it means that you're trusted. If you want people to compromise with you, then you have to learn how to compromise.

Learning not to do the thing you want to do right now so that you can do the thing you want to do in the future is a vital part of growing up. Most people are terrible at it

We really do sound/think alike sometimes. (except I don't always put things as nicely).

[andrewducker]

I don't feel like I've putting things nicely recently. I'm not sure if it's because my mind isn't working or if it's for some other reason, but I don't feel like I've been writing as clearly or as elegantly as I can.

I think it's probably the diet thing again, as I felt downright creative last week, when I was eating properly and sleeping right.

Still, yesterday was good diet-wise, today will be similar, and I'll be back to normal within a few days.

[andrewducker]

Oh, and you (along with several other people, of course) definitely had an effect on me and my thinking patterns. It's not surprising that we sometimes think alike.

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

This isn't really supporting or arguing what you said, but another, related thought. I tend to try to put the "do unto others" thing into practice. How would I like to be treated if I were on the other end of this situation?

Because I think that the reason the world isn't more the way it should be, is that people don't act the way they should. And if I try to make my actions closer to the way I would like to be treated myself, I feel I am bringing the world one little tiny mini-step closer to The Way It Should Be.

I don't like it when people are assholes to me. I try not to be an asshole to them.

[andrewducker]

"Do unto others" is tricky. I mean, I don't want to be tied to the bed and spanked, but other people do (for instance).

"Respect others and treat them as humans" would be better, if less catchy.

"Don't be an asshole." is even better though :->

[seidl.livejournal.com]

Well, 'do ont others' might taken (in your example as) give others what will make them happy, sexually. So if they want to be tied up and spanked, go for it. :)

But overall, I'm more concerned with treating other people like people than I worry about delayed gratification. You can delay things TOO long as well, making yourself every more miserable waiting for the time when everything is magically 'right'. But there are rarely reasons for treating other people like crap.

[darkoshi]

"treat others as you would like to be treated, unless they wouldn't like that" is how i think of it. except that then you have to know what others wouldn't like, or make your best-informed guess about it.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Learning not to do the thing you want to do right now so that you can do the thing you want to do in the future is a vital part of growing up. Most people are terrible at it. I'm not great at it (I usualyl know what the right thing is, but think I can compromise myself more than I actually can).

Within limits this sort of behavior is essential. However, I see it regularly taken to damaging extremes in Western capitalist culture. People are praised for deferring gratification. As a result, many work extra hours at jobs they dislike to save money for some desired good they can't have for months or years.

I once had a friend who saved for 5 years, spending little money on anything other than absolute necessities to go on a 5 month hiking vacation in Britain. I was baffled and not a little horrified at her behavior. I can't even remotely imagine any vacation being worth that much. I'd far rather have the nice meals, books, and trips to the movies that all that money could have bought.

Many more people put up with jobs or schooling they hate in return for a better job or a promotion to something they believe that will actually enjoy doing. I consider all of this sort of long-term deferred gratification to be an excellent way to lead a wretched and miserable life and make certain to avoid it.

For far too many people being adult is equated with being miserable. I reject this entire equation and refuse to defer gratification for more than a few weeks (at most). If something takes longer than that to acquire, I simply don't need it that badly and if I do not enjoy what I'm doing for that long, I find something else to be doing. One result of my attitude is that I will never be wealthy (or even a member of the middle class) until my parents die, but I'm also extremely happy with the practical aspects of my life.

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

Learning not to do the thing you want to do right now so that you can do the thing you want to do in the future is a vital part of growing up. Most people are terrible at it.

And some of us fuck it up by swinging too far in the other direction. Subsuming all of our drives and desires -- all of what we want to be doing -- in order to be "nice" or "acceptable". That was me, for my first 20 years and more.

I think you're right that it's very difficult to get the balance right. Depending on your surroundings and your basic personality, it's easy to live a life too far in either direction without even realizing it.