(no subject)

[andrewducker]

Comments

[ex-jetgrrrl855.livejournal.com]

rotfl

[centralasian.livejournal.com]

super!

heh

[josephgrossberg.livejournal.com]

It's also smart enough not to support monarchy in the freaking 21st century.

[ekatarina.livejournal.com]

Sigh.

And I want to be a teacher why? Right. So I can have a permanent flat spot on my forehead from thumping it against the wall, again, and again, and again, and again,...

Katja

[derumi.livejournal.com]

No, no! So you can impress your own views of politics on your children instead of letting them think and choose their views on their own. ^_^

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

Err, Iraq did use WMD, against the Kurds.

Admitedly we did sweet FA about it at the time, but it did happen.

Before the war, nobody on either side of the argument disputed that Iraq had had WMD, including the weapons inspectors, the row was about what to do about it. The weapons have gone missing, they did once exist.

Which only leaves the 9/11 point, americans aren't stupid to think that, they are simply not well informed. The US government went to some lengths to plant this idea in the population, and it sems to have worked.

I'd love to see the reaction to a similar cartoon based on what polls say the average middle eastern Muslim thinks, and equating his intelligence to a rock.

[andrewducker]

It's not against americans. It's against americans who believe the various propaganda that are floating about.

[andrewducker]

According to polls _most_ Americans do believe those things.

I will agree that it's not terribly subtly, but subtly doesn't seem to be getting through to the vast numbers of people who do believe those things.

[andrewducker]

Here's a discussion of it:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/02/06/iraq_poll/

[andrewducker]

Oh, and some scary figures here:
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Although not quite as bad as the cartoon makes out, still pretty bad.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Actually, David Kelly said that there was about a 30% chance that Iraq actually had WMDs. What was more likely was that they had a WMD programme. He was a weapons inspector. So, a few people in the know do have their doubts.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

It's not OK to state facts? That's a decent poll, and all you could come up with in response was that it's impossible to do an opinion poll of US citizens. If you've got grounds to question the methodology (sample size, representativeness, geographical spread), then bring 'em on.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

Seeing as how its a documented fact that Iraq used WMD against the Kurds, I fail to see how anyone can claim they never had any.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

Seeing as how 2 of the 3 statements are actually true (Iraq did have WMD and has used them), why is this a problem?

The joke is a racist swipe at Americans, as is so trendy these days.

Whats mre you know it is, you just feel comfortable with this particular piece of racism. I suppose it's no different from jokes about stupid Irish or tight fisted Scots, but there is a particularly condecending attitude that goes with this sterotype which goes beyond cultural sterotype jokes and into more direct racism. i.e. people actualy do like to think Americans are all dumb burger munching rednecks.

Its a particularly crass joke for you to post when you have (or rather had) at least one American on your friends list who is now very offended.

My original point stands, lets make some cultural jokes about Muslims and liken thier intelligence to rocks, or how about Socts. That'll be a barell of laughs wont it?

[andrewducker]

The question being : at the start of the war, when we were told that they had them and were prepared to use them.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Who's claiming that they never had them? The 30% comment referred to the start of the latest war.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

I don't recall that nuance coming out in the joke. I see you're still studiously avoiding the main thrust of my point that you're being offensive and racist.

Disappointing.

[andrewducker]

I have no problem offending the people who still believe those things.

I do not believe I am being racist.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

You've offended Americans in general, your joke implicitly makes out that Americans are dumber than rocks. I'm married to an American who knows plenty about the Iraq situation, certainly isn't dumb and is very offended by this joke.

If calling an entire group of people dumb by their country of birth isnt racist I'm not enitrely sure what is.

If perhaps you'd made even a token effort to appologise for the offense you've caused or addressed the points I made about it being offensive, I might have retained some respect. As it is all you've seen fit to do is split semantic hairs and burble about the nuances of the issue. Completely ignoring that the joke is not subtle, doesnt address the nuances, is a gross simplification of a complex issue and gets its primary laugh from taking a cheap dig at 'dumb Americans'.

And I'm not just saying this because I'm married to an American, I made very similar points about the ridicule pointed at those with Christian beleifs in an earlier post, despite not sharing those beleifs myself.

I just find it contemptable when people who otherwise claim to be liberal thinkers who are firmly against prejudice, feel its ok to ignore those principles when the target is a group they have a bias against.

[andrewducker]

I'm married to an American who knows plenty about the Iraq situation, certainly isn't dumb and is very offended by this joke.

I'm fully aware of this. I believe she has taken the joke contrary both to it's intention and it's meaning.

If calling an entire group of people dumb by their country of birth isnt racist I'm not enitrely sure what is.

If you'd like to point out where I did that, I'd be very grateful to know.

[andrewducker]

I'd also like to say that other American's have said they find this funny (Derumi and JosephGrossberg do so above), so it can hardly be said to be offensive to _all_ Americans.

[wordofblake.livejournal.com]

Didn't it clearly say most americans? not all? I mean I rarely drink but I dont get offended if people refer to the Irish as a race of violent drunkards. Some people are maybe a little too touchy

[odheirre.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm kind of encouraged by these numbers. There has been a lot of push in the White House about WMDs and Iraq = terrorists. It's good to know that a sizable portion of Americans have kept the record straight.

Oh, and I'm American, and both my wife and I laughed at the cartoon. Didn't find it at all offensive. I think part of it is because "most Americans" is such a quiltwork of people, I know it doesn't necessarily refer to us, specifically.

Now, if it said "Muslims" or "Catholics" or "blacks" or "Dutch-Americans", I could see where someone would be offended. Or even "all Americans". But this? No.

[drainboy.livejournal.com]

The rocks doesn't believe that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq: since the war, they haven't been. In the year before the war, when the weapon inspectors were in Iraq, they weren't (unless you believe Powells propaganda over the weapon inspectors).

The rock doesn't believe that Iraq actually used such weapons: I presume it means, during the war, in which case, they didn't, if they mean ever, then yes, they did in '88, 15 years ago.

The rock doesn't believe that Iraqis were amongst the 9/11 terrorists: they weren't.

Which, according to polls, makes it smarter than most Americans: I presume this means that, in polls, more than 50% of Americans thought the above statements were true.

Presuming that the facts raised are correct, where is the racism? It seems to be a simple statement of fact.

Mike

[allorin.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Studiously avoiding any argument on here, but I will tell you that Si (my wife, an American) also found it funny.

I had written more, but people don't seem to just be able to talk about things on LJ any more, without it degenerating into an argument.