Ennui

[andrewducker]

When I went out with Gina, and for the year directly following, I largely had to put my wants on hold.

This was pretty jarring for me, but you really can't carry on planning things and expecting them to come to fruition when the person you're with might, on the day you planned to go to the cinema, be incapable of leaving the house.

After numerous frustrating occurences when I had looked forward to events which I then wasn't able to enjoy, I discovered the only way to avoid this was to simply stop looking forward to things. If I anticipated a particular future and it didn't happen, I felt frustrated at a person who (a) couldn't help it and (b)I love(d). this was obviously intolerable, so I simply adjusted to a life of not looking forward to things. I either didn't plan things, or if I planned them I didn't actively look forward to them.

This, obviously, took a fair chunk of the fun out of life. It forced me through a growing-up period and out the other side, leaving me feeling like I was now more capable of dealing with other people like a reasonable adult, but less capable of goofing off and enjoying life.

Another natural process that occurred in a six year period around this was my investigation into how minds work (inspired by my year and a half of philosophy, my initial experiments with LSD and my realisation that people's minds mostly made stuff up). My experiences over those six years led me to the understanding that
a)The mind (of all creatures, not just people) has evolved such that it has certain urges. Those urges are there because, in the original habitat that the creature evolved in, they allowed that creature to survive long enough to produce more creatures.
b)Not satisfying those urges produced negative emotions (frustration, anger, boredom, etc).
c)Satisfying those urges produced positive emotions (contentedness, joy, orgasmic bliss, adrenaline surges and the like).
d)We were no longer in anything that remotely equated that original environment.
e)The entire entertainment industry exists to satisfy those urges better and more easily than they would have been satisfied 'in the wild'.

For some reason (and I'm not sure why) the thought that by playing Doom (or whatever) I was giving in to some internal part of me that demanded to be fed violence, gore and excitement removed a fair bit of the thrill for me. It wasn't that I objected to liking gore (good lord, no), but I felt like I was being manipulated by myself. In fact, thinking about it, I largely consider 'me' to be the intellectual, conscious, thinking bits of my brain - to discover that I was at the mercy of bits of my brain that cannot be reasoned with (although they can be trained) was not pleasant.

This was coupled with the fact that I stopped believing in any kind of objective morality, aesthetics or meaning. It's funny to think that I used to believe in that, but now can't think of any reason to do so - the explanation for which is almost certainly that there wasn't reason, I just hadn't been thinking about it for long enough to overcome my cultural imprinting.

Anyway, without objective meaning, I was left without reasons to do things. Despite any Vulcan witterings about "logical courses of action", there is no logical way to live your life. There may well be logical routes to take to a particular outcome, but there's no logical outcome to want (each time a logical outcome is proposed ask _why_ it's logical - you end up in an infinite regress that's only cut short by saying "Because I want it" or "Because it's natural" or "Because God says so" all of which are about as logical as an episode of Charmed.)

With no ultimate meaning to life, I was free to choose to do anything I liked - I could set my own goals to be anything I felt like. The trouble being I no longer believed that "what I felt like" was anything beyond a set of heuristics useful for surviving on the African Savannah (or possibly sea-shore).

The combination of these brought me to a dead halt in my life. I became incapable of setting any long term goals. I could still happily function on a day-to-day basis, because I had enough inertia left over for "things I enjoy", and when things happened that demanded my attention I could still get sucked into them, but I really need something that grabs my primal instincts so hard that my intellect is taken out of the loop for me to completely enjoy it. Anything which allows me to remember that I'm watching a film/reading a book/playing a game leaves me wondering why I'm doing it and then, shortly thereafter, not doing it at all.

The traditional solution to this would be Buddhism. Buddhists, after all, believe in detachment from the world, that one should want nothing, and that there is no objective anything to be found in reality. Surely it would be easy to slide into this and allow my detachment to rule over all.

The problem is that Buddhists do believe in one thing objectively – that the world is an illusion and that one must abandon that illusion until one’s soul can leave the great cycle of reincarnation and return to the infinite that is the true reality.

I, on the other hand, don’t believe in reincarnation, souls or that this world is an illusion (although our senses certainly produce one in our head that most people confuse with reality). I also still, frequently, enjoy life. So long as I can distract myself from thinking too much I can throw myself into something and it can be great fun.

The question, however, is how long can I do this for? I haven’t played a computer game for more than half an hour in months. My book reading has slowed to a trickle. I’ve had a copy of Visual Studio sitting on my computer waiting for me to get into it for weeks now. Some part of me wants to engage myself with these, but can’t quite pull off the necessary belief that these things are important enough to engage with.

Neil Gaiman once said that “Ennui was insufficient reason for suicide.” And I’d tend to agree with him – I don’t think that not caring about life is sufficient reason to stop living – but I need something long term to make the rest of my life seem like something I want to do, rather than something I’ll have to distract myself during.

Comments

[diffrentcolours]

I kind of have the same problems - I had to give up all my ambitions for a partner a while ago, and getting into the habit of wanting stuff is hard. Mostly my long term ambitions are formed from my short term ambitions - my immediate desires are for financial security, personal space and Shiny Geek Toys so my long term ambitions include further qualifications, a higher salary and my own mortgaged house.

Actually getting off my arse and doing anything about these ambitions is often more tricky. I should be studying for my CCNA and doing web dev during my evenings at home, not prevaricating on IRC and gaim. But at least I've got a direction for my life-vector, if no actual movement towards my targets :)

[protempore.livejournal.com]

This deserves a very, very long and thought out reply. But I'm a minimalist, today.

I found myself in a very similar situation . . . having no reason, period. Mine ended up translating into a lot of bitterness and cynicism -- and before I knew it, I'd lost my job and my stability; suffering frequent panic attacks, depression, and agoraphobia. It didn't work out well, for me; but that's not so much lack of reason to be as allowing that to translate to bitterness about "having to be here without choice". I was bitter about life being forced upon me.

I ultimately found peace in Zen literature. (Here I go following your Buddhism paragraph); but Zen isn't necessarily Buddhism, though it evolved from it. Zen, by nature, doesn't hold a belief in any absolute notion -- not even the notions of Buddhism.

It's not some thing to convert to. It's not a religion or a philosophy, though it's often called both. It's more than any thing a way of seeing.

The problem with existing without some thing to 'believe' in/upon is that we, by nature, view things as dualities. Saying "I don't believe in anything" doesn't free you from the notion of belief, it really creates an emptiness. Zen is more of a seeing-outside-of-dualities approach. It doesn't say life is an illusion; nor does it say life is not an illusion. And it doesn't say that life is either/neither illusion or not illusion.

I don't know. It might be worth a glance. Having 'no reason' isn't so bad when you shed the perceived need for said purpose or unpurpose.

[andrewducker]

you're right - and I originally got interested in Buddhism through Zen (and in Zen through Discordianism and Robert Anton Wilson).

I shall have to go back and reread.

[andrewducker]

Funnily enough, one of the reasons I went for my current job was "long term prospects" and "pension"

I'm well aware that I will have a future, so I wanted to make sure I could enjoy it. I'm just not sure how, yet.

[aberbotimue.livejournal.com]

i'm not the best reader/writer in the world, so let me cut out the chaff from this lot... cos ain't quite got the problem sorted..

Pluss I am after all a software person, so we brealkk it down into wee bits..

1) " I either didn't plan things, or if I planned them I didn't actively look forward to them.

This, obviously, took a fair chunk of the fun out of life "

2)Is the "how the mind works" bit got any reason for being in this post?? apart from grounding for the games playing fuling the desire for agresion, fun etc??

Note: is this not the same reason for having films, rather than going and doing the things, being a spy, a hobbit, or a spaceman?? they are there for escapisum, be it game playing or reading a book, watching a film etc.. why read more into it?

3) without objective meaning, I was left without reasons to do things.

4) "Because I want it" or "Because it's natural" or "Because God says so" all of which are about as logical as an episode of Charmed

5) The trouble being I no longer believed that "what I felt like" was anything beyond a set of heuristics useful for surviving on the African Savannah

6) infact, does this not sum up the wjhole lot??

"I became incapable of setting any long term goals. I could still happily function on a day-to-day basis, because I had enough inertia left over for "things I enjoy", and when things happened that demanded my attention I could still get sucked into them, but I really need something that grabs my primal instincts so hard that my intellect is taken out of the loop for me to completely enjoy it. Anything which allows me to remember that I'm watching a film/reading a book/playing a game leaves me wondering why I'm doing it and then, shortly thereafter, not doing it at all.
"

7) but can’t quite pull off the necessary belief that these things are important enough to engage with.


O>K>

Have I missed any of the main points here, and was any of the other stuff important, other than a backgrounding to these points??

If I have the main ones, I want to chalenge the comparisons made, in that a glass is half full and half empty, so most of them are misleading..

I offer a scietific aproach.. I belive out of the 30 or so other friends you have reading your post, that you will get a lot of advice from such a leading post..

I went of the rails and you pointed me back to them, it didn't quite get me on them, but that was somthing only I could do... I am paining the signs back to the rails as you type your responce...

[chipuni.livejournal.com]

The solution? Become like a child again.

Open your eyes to the colours of the world; watch a butterfly as she flits from flower to flower. Unabashedly -want- something... and get it.

Put aside the masks that you wear and live!

[andrewducker]

do you have any advice on how to beome child-like again?

[guyinahat.livejournal.com]

So in your last paragraph, you're basically wanting to define a meaning of life for yourself.

Hrm

I empathise and sympathise with the problem.

My word, R.Whites diet lemonade is nowhere near as good as the full fat version.

You mention the urges the mind gets that are associated with short term gratification. I would suggest that there may be urges associated with long term gratification that are perhaps what you are looking for.

For example, paternal instincts can take a hold on us and motivate us in a way that I would think is similar in mechanism to your Doom response. The difference being however that it isn't short term in nature.
Of course the problem with paternal instincts is that you need to be in a particular context before they become apparent. Leap of faith territory.

'course you may want to explore goals other than having sproggs.

I think in the first instance, you need to get the juices flowing in something that you perceive as more than a quick distraction, but don't need to feel is a _life goal_. I find these things flow a lot easier when you are already in a positive and empowered situation due to engaging activity.
Locomotion and destination and all that. Must fish out that post some time.

I would say more, but I'm currently mentally blocked by craving for fish.

[rainstorm.livejournal.com]

and don't listen to the people who say "you can't do that". a childlike view of the world is my biggest defence against giving in.. you can just.. look at things and get lost in them, whether it's a book or a film or the way the sky looks.. it's the little things that really matter because big things come along to rarely to really be changeable.

did that make sense?

[andrewducker]

Yup. Thanks.

[simmah.livejournal.com]

Okay so you've surrounded yourself with beliefs that have broadened your viewpoint of the world but somehow this has lead to Ennui...

Have you stopped exploring? Do you except life as you know it to be the truth? You have this wonderful imagination full of intelligence and you're seeking advice on how to escape a sense of bleakness due to a general boredom of life as you know it?

Here it is.

No matter what society tells you. No matter what you inner doubts whisper to you as you have fun. No matter what responsible adults, overachievers, people who think they're smarter then you, bums, priests, enlightened ones...everyone says to you....

...Ennui has no power over your imagination. It is your strength...it is what makes life interesting so feeeeeed it.

It hasn't all been done before by the way...how could it be when the idea "everything is possible" seems to be rejected more and more everyday.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Nah, he should have a kid. Kids rule! ;+)

[allorin.livejournal.com]

I'll come back to you later when I have more time....

[spaj.livejournal.com]

The question you seem to be asking is how do I find meaning in life?

My answer to date has been "There isn't one. So do what works for you."

Oh, and on instinct, as much as I agree... you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Take sex, for example. I enjoy sex on many levels. I enjoy it in the panting, hormone inducing level, as instinct dictates. But I also enjoy it in a silly, gooey, messy fun way. Not everything you do is instinct driven. Simply accept that some things bring you enjoyment on an instinctual level, and get over it.

sorry if that sounds a bit harsh. I'm trying to be brief, so that my words ring true, and make me look all wise, and stuff.

Adam

[andrewducker]

I could still get sucked into them, but I really need something that grabs my primal instincts so hard that my intellect is taken out of the loop for me to completely enjoy it

See - I _can_, just find it hard...

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

Your understanding of Buddhism is different from mine. Perhaps we've been reading works in different traditions.

My understanding is that Buddhism teaches that desire/attachment (wanting a particular outcome in any situation) leads to pain. Also, the Buddhist texts that I have read -- for example, the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Han -- do not in any way recommend a detachment from the world. They recommend a lack of attachment, but that doesn't mean they recomment detachment.

Let me clarify. In Buddhism -- as I understand it -- the key is not detachment or abandoning the "illusion" of the world, but rather engaging with the world in a way that allows you to accept that you are not in control of what happens around you. For example, the Dalai Lama is not in control of China's actions in Tibet. Thich Nhat Han is not in control of his expulsion from Vietnam. Neither of them, however, detach themselves from the world or just sit around waiting to get reincarnated. They meditate to keep their own heads clear, they accept the world as it is, and they work to try to make the world even better ... without getting unduly upset if their work shows no results. It's the work that matters, not the results. It's the trying that matters.

My advice? This may sound ridiculous, but I'd recommend that you think about doing some sort of volunteer work that pertains to one of your interests. Try to help other people, try to make the world a better place. It doesn't have to replace computer games, since it can be just a couple hours each week. I don't know you well enough to make assumptions about whether volunteer work would give you any sense of purpose or satisfaction, but it has done so for me in the past. In our area, there is even a central department where folks can phone and find out about local volunteer opportunities (helping at the library, visiting people in nursing homes, working for nature conservation societies, etc.), so you might want to find out if there's something like that near you.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to preach. Just thought I'd mention it as a possibility that might interest you.

[andrewducker]

I had considered volunteer work in the past, but I'd want to be doing something that used my computer skills, otherwise I'd feel both bored and wasted. generally speaking I don't care enough about people to spend time doing things that don't engage me at least partially.

Cheers for the buddhism remarks. I may have some reading to do.

[spaj.livejournal.com]

point was: You CAN, but usually you don't.

Usually you don't because your intellect gets in the way, asking questions like "am I enjoying this because it's enjoyable, or becasue my body chooses to release a set of endorphins etc under certain sets of stimulai"

My point was "why does it matter, as long as you're enjoying it. Get over it. It's not like it matters why you're enjoying it."

Adam

[andrewducker]

Aah, so your advice is "get over it"

Do you have any practical advice as to how to do that?

I thought my post made it fairly clear that getting over it is exactly what I want to do, I just don't know _how_.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I recommend going into search mode. Seek out skills you might want to learn (from martial arts, to dance, to jewelry making or automobile repair and perhaps some even further afield). Look at genres of movies and literature you haven't looked at before, or last looked into years ago, suggest new activities to do with friends (paintball/ lasertag, wacky retro disco dancing, rock climbing...) I'm firmly convinced that there is something out there that will grab you. Check out lots of novels from the library, go the first class of many sorts of adult education classes, try out new activities with friends. Keep doing this and narrow your search based on how much you are enjoying yourself doing various activities. You might want to especially look into adrenaline-producing activities like some of the more physical styles of martial arts, laser tag, or rock climbing.

You will hopefully have a good deal of fun and I'm betting that you will eventually uncover one or more activities that you really enjoy.

[andrewducker]

I do occasionally lock onto something new - when I bumped into nick Hornby I spent about 4 months devouring books by him, Mike Gayle and other similar "modern men coping with the change to adulthood" books. At which point I felt I'd got everything I was going to out of the genre and started seeing the repetitions very clearly.

I think this is one of the reasons I like things that feel like they almost fit together but don't quite - The Invisibles, Illuminatus, Matrix Reloaded all spring to mind immediately - things which hint at a larger world that I don't grasp, but never give em enough information to dismiss them _or_ understand them.

Cheers for the advice, by the way.

[spaj.livejournal.com]

Well, it's not as intellectual as you think then:

The problem, as I see it, is that you can't let go of your intellect, because it's constantly analysing things saying "you're only enjoying this because it's stimulating instinctual response X" which breaks any kind of absorbtion with the subject matter at hand?

My advice is not primarily to get over it. If you read my first paragraph, I was more wondering why this bothers you so much that you can't accept enjoyment through instinctual stimulation.

My advice was, and is

"Simply accept that some things bring you enjoyment on an instinctual level, and get over it. "

The question you have to answer is why can't you accept instinctual stimulation, when you can accept, say intellectual stimulation? Where's the difference? You feel your intellect is more a part of you than your instinct, because your instinct is hardwired, whereas your intellect feels like software? You are the software, the operating system, all the surface thoughts are your consciousness? But surely the underlying hardware is a part of the machine's performance and operations as well???

Failing that, perhaps you could find something which engages your intellect, instead of your instincts. There's nothing instinctual to say, writing a novel?

Hope I've not missed the point.

Adam

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm still here and what you describe has pretty much been my state of mind for ever so long ( I drew very similar conclusions on mind/emotion/motivation before I even met you - remember conversations about me[as you referred to it] 'censoring' desires, and about how all I needed was enough sleep, enough food enough shelter and to be not too bored?).

Sometimes I feel like I am doing things just becase they are on the list of "things that Kirsty likes doing", but I have found that the only way to avoid depression is to do things (even stupid shit like the dishes or washing is better than doing nothing). So my life is full of doing things, things that I'm at least vaguely interested in. Sometimes I have to drag myself by saying "I want to get my black belt" even if it's only words and has only ever been the words. I have to stick like glue to whatever mild occasional notions I get.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and life just is, you just are and none of it has a 'reason' no matter how much you'd like it to.

but I really need something that grabs my primal instincts so hard that my intellect is taken out of the loop for me to completely enjoy it. Anything which allows me to remember that I'm watching a film/reading a book/playing a game leaves me wondering why I'm doing it and then, shortly thereafter, not doing it at all.


You don't need this (contrast- you do need oxygen).

Why would you want to 'take your intellect' out of things? In fact, I don't think that you can, once you have one.

I think you are just nostalgic for the immediacy that emotions have in your childhood (and also still occurs in dreams). Personally, I don't miss that one single bit (but maybe because I specialised in miserable/angry/frustrated ones and very little happy ones).

You are in control of you. You can't get out of that. thers is no excuse. Deal with it.

[cleodhna.livejournal.com]

I wanted to comment yesterday, but Tuesdays are often rather full in teh afternoon. Yesterday was no exception. Um...

You have lots of general responses. I'm going to recommend something practical.

Somebody suggested that there was something of a jump in your narrative. I pickedup on that as well: you seemed to go directly from not being able to plan ahead and this taking a lot of the enjoyment out of things, to not knowing why you were doing a particular thing or feeling that you were being manipulated into using a marticular methodology to satisfy a primal urge, and this taking a lot of the enjoyment out of things. May I suggest that the two are related?

I am hardly anywhere near well-read on Buddhism, and as you know, I am a deeply aspiritual person myself. This hardly exempts me from some proclivities towards mysticism. Indeed, I rather think it necessitates it... bear with me. I'll start making sense in a minute.

There is a trick to meditation. Things pop up in our heads. We get distracted. There you are contemplating the essence of nothingness and all of a sudden you're planning a menu for a dinner you're intending to cook for your parents in two weeks, which makes you wonder who won the football... and on it goes. The trick is, when a thought comes up, do not ignore it. Attend to it.Fix it with piercing scrutiny. Don't let it wriggle away or lead you into another thought. Make it really uncomfortable. Then, consciously and with full attention to the process, let it fall away. I'm not saying this is easy. It takes a lot of work, but it gets easier. Nor am I saying you have to do this. Ithink I've gone past my minute after which I was supposed to be making sense, and I'm not yet, am I? I only bring this up because of the mention of Buddhsim, because it fits in with the frame of mind.

This is a practise that ought to be extended to life in general. When a particular distracts you, attend to it. It is not easy to do this, especially in times such as these when we are conditioned to live very fast, always looking ahead to the next thing, never in the moment; I think it might be even harder for a very clever person such as yourself to do it, because your mind will find more, deeper, and more interesting connections with each and everything.

Human beings are constructors of counterfactual conditionals par excellence. It is our nature. We are always looking forward, planning, running through mental trials of futures we intend to bring about. We are better at this than any other animal. It's part of what makes us us.

When you learned not to look forward to things you had planned, you learned, I suspect, to dissociate yourself from this very natural part of human reasoning. I doubt that you entirely ceased to look forward to things; I suspect rather that you took it to a meta-level, where the looking-forward was there, but you were immediately aware that the looking-forward was not going to do you any good at all and was rather pointless.

The same, I think, might be true when you try to enjoy something and find that you can't, because you feel manipulated, don't know why you're doing it, and it becomes meaningless. You are experiening the thing you are doing on a meta-level. You're reading a book, and you are immediately aware that the excitement you get from absorbing the story is there to satisfy some need; you're aware that you're awaree of it; the whole thing becomes meaningless.

You say " So long as I can distract myself from thinking too much I can throw myself into something and it can be great fun." May I suggest that this is precisely the wrong thing to do? That is trying to get back under the meta-level. That is to go backwards, but unless you've had a stroke, you can never go backwards. You can only go forwards.

The next time you find yourself in the grip of ennui, try subjecting it to itself. If you find yourself questioning why you are doing something, grab the question by the ears and do not let it go until its guts are laid bare before you. Attend it fully. Stop doing the thing you were doing that made it appear, and make it the sole focus of your attention. Perhaps it will answer for itself, and you'll be above it.

[andrewducker]

No, you're right.

I do need to accept that I am both my body and my mind.

In some ways I do - I believe that my emotions are necessary - I go out of my way to see films that are emotive - I go hillwalking.

But something still feels different about my instinctual side.

Hmm, this requiers more thought.

Cheers.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

think this is one of the reasons I like things that feel like they almost fit together but don't quite - The Invisibles, Illuminatus, Matrix Reloaded all spring to mind immediately - things which hint at a larger world that I don't grasp, but never give em enough information to dismiss them _or_ understand them.


That would be because the authors don't 'understand them' either. Not all of their effects are intentional. Books/films etc. are rarely as 'deep' (or 'clever') as they (often)try to appear.

Grant Morrison is just off his head - "the drugs don't work, they just make you worse...", so don't fret there.

You are going to end up breeding (I'm said before that this kind of attitude is why women suddenly decide at 30 odd to have kids - no biological clock, just mild boredom with the purposelessness of life as it is) or finding God at this rate.

In one way there is no 'larger world', and another there is - but you don't have time to learn everything about everything (that can be discovered/learned/detected/thought about), but there's no mystery in it (as you seem to think or feel).

[andrewducker]

You've taken me out of context. I said:

I could still get sucked into them, but I really need something that grabs my primal instincts...

i.e., in order to get sucked into doing something, it needs to really grab me.

I can get wrapped up in something fully, still, it's just harder than it has been in the past.

[andrewducker]

Cheers, Doc. Lots of good ideas there.

You're right about moving forward, not back. In fact, having written all of that yesterday, I felt fantastically good for the next few hours.

However, if I abandon enjoying things for their own sake, surely this means abandoning pretty much all things which are fun for their own sake? If throwing myself into an adrenaline-soaked movie in order to enjoy the experience is the wrong thing to do, do I avoid films altogether as a 'spoiled medium' despite the fact that I can still enjoy them (sometimes)?

Or are you saying that if I'm sitting in a film and I find I can't enjoy it because I keep questioning why I'm there, then I'm simply not in a film that I, in my current state, can enjoy and I shouldn't worry about it?

[andrewducker]

Grant is definitely off of his head, but it rarely matters (to me), because the worlds he produces are frequently full of meaning that does apply to this one, which keeps me happy enough.

And I will not be breeding under any circumstances I have control over. Nor will I be finding God unless he turns up at my flat.

There's lots of mystery to the world - vast amounts of things we don't understand. Or do you mean something else by mystery?

[cleodhna.livejournal.com]

if I'm sitting in a film and I find I can't enjoy it because I keep questioning why I'm there, then I'm simply not in a film that I, in my current state, can enjoy and I shouldn't worry about it?

That is very insightful. Yes. The crucial part is the 'in my current state' part, but you should worry about it, because it's getting in your way and making you not enjoy a movie you'd quite enjoy if you weren't in that state. If you are able to conquer the state, however, the enjoyment of the film can be part of that other state.

Abandoning things for their own sake is precisly not what you should do, think. You're troubled because you are confronted with this thinking process that makes things seem pointless in themselves, so take that for its own sake.

Hume reached a plateau in his metaphysical reasonings with strangeley Eastern overtones, when he found that he had no indefeasible reason to believe in causality, personal identity, the existence of a coherency to the universe, anything that made a rational kind of sense. This kind of thing has been thought before and since, and it has upset a lot of people, but not Hume. His answer: believe because it one cannot not believe.

I think this translates well: do because you cannot not do. Even pointlessness can be pointful.

[andrewducker]

So, if I'm sitting in a film and I get pulled out of the film to think "Oh, the violins just swelled, they're trying to make me feel sad. I hate it when filmmakers try to manipulate me like that......."

I should try to do what? Finish that thought to it's logical conclusion? Which would take me out of the film even further! Or are you saying that if I did this a few times I'd be able to work through the problem and my future film appreciate would come back because I'd have worked past the point where I'd get dragged out?
On a side note, I don't believe in personal identity. I assume causality and coherency (at least I assume coherency on some level, I don't insist that local coherency is the same as coherency elsewhere), but the idea of identity seems completely ridiculous to me except as a useful fiction for everyday life.

[cleodhna.livejournal.com]

You are a good Humean. As long as you can live the fiction, you're fine. :)

So, if I'm sitting in a film and I get pulled out of the film to think "Oh, the violins just swelled, they're trying to make me feel sad. I hate it when filmmakers try to manipulate me like that......."

I should try to do what? Finish that thought to it's logical conclusion?

No. Stop the thought in its tracks. Don't follow it. Analyse the thought. It is about the current state of the violins and how you hate it when filmmakers use such techniques to manipulate you. Now the thought is going to try to take you elsewhere. Don't let it. Examine it in every particular: how it popped up at precisely that moment in the score in response to a certain phrase that evokes sadness; the phrase itself; the feeling of being manipulated-- not the how and wherefore, that's another thought, and it'll get you if you let the first one out of your grasp--; the feeling of hating it. What an interesting sort of thought. Very complex, full of different emotive content. When you're done with it, drop it, and go back to the film. Try to figure out what happened while you were doing something else.

Eventually, this will become routine. Up will pop some distracting thought that diverts you from your subject, so make it your subject.

The point is not to let it convince you of the pointlessness of your endeavour, by pointedly making a point of its. You mentioned something about how this analytical level of thought, this kind of consciousness, as being yourself-- well, subject that to consciousness.

[andrewducker]

Aah, I'm obviously remarkably stupid, because it took you three attempts there to make me understand that.

I feel epiphanised.

I once realised that I needed to analyse my negative thoughts, so that I could dispell them, but should avoid analysing my positive ones, because that would reduce their effectiveness.

I never thought that analysing any analysis of the positive would be the best way to dispell it.

I have a large grin on my face. Cheers.

[cleodhna.livejournal.com]

I feel like a happy mystic. Thanks.

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

The director of Finance at the Pru/Craigforth (so someone pretty darn senior, all things considered) works as a volunteer. She does the accounting for a children of drug addicts charity. Accountantcy is something fairly specialised and expensive, so she does it for free. that saves the charity a lot of money.

If you want to do something worthwhile that uses your skills, why not work out what you can do and offer them. Find a charity you care about, tell them how you're a damn hot programmer (I presume you are, of course), offer them however much of your time that you want and say "okay, what do you need?". Heck, redesign their operation from the ground up, if that floats your boat. But they don't advertise for this kind of thing, just find one you like and offer yourself up to them.

[andrewducker]

That's a very good point and sir is a genius!

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Why do you want to to be totally wrapped up in one thing? Rejoice in your capacity to think/do several things at once! It's probably a result of increased brain abilities that come with age.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

yes, some people use the term 'mystery' to mean 'unknowable' but in some kind of "not allowed cos we are mere mortals" kind of unknowable sense.