andrewducker: (Default)
[personal profile] andrewducker

Date: 2012-02-01 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
Rule 21 in my '55 Rules for Debate in the Modern World' was "Just because you were offended, or chose to be offended, by something that somebody said, does not mean that what was said was offensive. Quite often the fault is with the listener." That seems applicable to the "babe" thing.

When I first stayed with my now wife at her home in North Devon, I was more than a little taken aback when the middle-aged woman who served me in the local shop said to me "Thank you, my lover*". ("I'm sure I would have remembered..." I thought.)

It would be a shame if quaint little dialect expressions like "babe" or "my lover" disappeared from the language because of political correctness. Also, if the word "babe" is going to become offensive, then an awful lot of songs will need to be rewritten...






* Well actually in a North Devon accent, it was more like "moy luvver".

Date: 2012-02-01 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pigwotflies.livejournal.com
I don't mind being called 'babe' by random strangers, nor 'love', 'duck', 'pet', etc.
I would object to being called 'babe' or 'baby' by my husband. I'm not sure this is logical, but there you are. :)

Date: 2012-02-01 02:04 pm (UTC)
innerbrat: (opinion)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
That rule annoys me. I've seen it used at worst by people who wield it as a weapon to excuse them using loaded slurs in their conversation, and at best by people who are refusing to accept responsibility for their words.

Some people just call people 'babe', it's true. However, words like 'babe', 'honey', 'dear' are frequently used in a condescending, belittling way to women, especially in disagreements. To turn around and add "well, it's your fault if you choose to offended, babe," is additionally insulting.

Date: 2012-02-01 02:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
I didn't really mean for the rule to be interpreted that way. What I wanted to express was the idea that while it _is_ offensive to use "words like 'babe', 'honey', 'dear'..." in ways that "are frequently used in a condescending, belittling way to women, especially in disagreements" (and there I completely agree with you), it shouldn't be offensive if that was not the speaker's intention.

It isn't fair if someone uses a word-that-might-have-an-offensive-connotation deliberately offensively and then uses rule 21 to say "well, it's your fault if you choose to offended, babe". In fact, you're right - it would be additionally insulting. However, I would still argue that if the speaker really meant no offence, then the listener shouldn't look for it.

If, for example, a student from North Wales goes into a village shop in rural North Devon and is "offended" when the shopkeeper calls him "my lover", I think it's the student who is in the wrong, not the shopkeeper.

Date: 2012-02-01 02:29 pm (UTC)
innerbrat: (thank you)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
Thank you for the clarification, and sorry I made the wrong assumption (which I did because people HAVE used it that way)

I see your point of view now, and understand.

While we don't know for sure, I doubt the original bus complaint was a simple occurrence of "drivers have to stop saying babe, it's offensive" as it seems more likely that it was part of a larger dispute or behavior the complainant considered unprofessional, and the company isolated it as something they could implement service-wide.

That's just how things seem to work.

Date: 2012-02-01 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
You've done nothing to apologise for - it was my fault for not being clear enough when I wrote that rule.


(Incidentally, I was trying to work out where I recognised your name from. I looked through some of your more recent entries and came across your brilliant post about what English words mean in New York (mostly "sandwich") which made me smile as much as it did when Andrew first linked to it. And a special bonus point for having the thing that we Brits think about as "hero" being Mark Cavendish!)

Date: 2012-02-01 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
> And it might not even do that. The advantages of established First World industries are still formidable. The only reason developing countries have been able to compete with those industries is their ability to offer employers cheap labor. Deny them that ability, and you might well deny them the prospect of continuing industrial growth, even reverse the growth that has been achieved.

I am suddenly strongly reminded of the bit in Obelix & Co where someone says that 'A slave's only right is work; you cannot remove that right from him'. Huh, fancy that!

Date: 2012-02-01 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
Re: move your money: I've had some money in Zopa for a while. I'm don't know what I've averaged, but I'm pretty sure it's over 5%.

Date: 2012-02-01 11:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] channelpenguin.livejournal.com
interesting. I was intrigued when Zopa started up but never brave enough to take the plunge.

Date: 2012-02-01 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
Just logged in to take a look.

I opened the account in 2009 (IIRC). My all-time summary shows £10 of bad debt. My tax statement for last year shows I made 41.34 on £500, after fees of 4.99. So actually more like 8%. I'd definitely recommend it.

Date: 2012-02-01 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pete stevens (from livejournal.com)
I've managed £1700 of interest over three years on an average balance of ~ £7000 but I've clocked up £151 of bad debt and ~ £200 of fees. The bad debt appears to be rising (in part because I'm not making new loans but drawing money out). I became less enthusiastic when HMRC decided that a bad debt was a capital rather than an income loss, so you can't write the losses off against your interest. At 40% tax, that means I've kept roughly £1000 after tax over three years, which is a net interest rate of 4.7%, that's a bit better than offsetting against my mortgage which offers a risk free 100% flexible 3% return by comparison. That's 254 loans so far, 4 defaults, 76 paid back early, 174 still in progress.

As a result of not being able to write off losses against your income, as your marginal tax rate increases risk of default becomes progressively more expensive, which results in a skew in the interest rates between safe borrowers (A) and unsafe borrowers (C) and the unhappy consequence that those least able to pay the loans back are shafted by being given an extra high interest rate. My defaults are all 'B' loans, so £141 of default on £2900 of 'B' loans over three years is a 1.6% default rate, the result of the tax change is I need to increase the interest rate by 2.7% rather than 1.6% over 'A' borrowers to break even.

Socially this works out terribly, it means that the richest lenders have an incentive to take the safest loans, the poorest lenders the most unsafe loans, the richest borrowers get artificially better rates and the poorest borrowers get artificially worst rates.

Date: 2012-02-01 11:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
I have wondered what would happen to the political landscape post-independence. The SNP splitting up seems a fairly likely possibility. And what would the other parties do? Would be get a pro-union party, even if a tiny minority one? I'm guessing they would rebrand in some way, but I've no idea how.

Date: 2012-02-01 01:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I think the centre-left become pretty crowded in Scotland in the 2016 or more likely 2020 general election.

I think the SNP are mainly a centre-left Social Democrat with a few others who might fall into the Conservative Party or elsewhere if they didn’t think that the question of independence was a trump issue. With that issue resolved these people can return to their natural home.

The Labour Party are broadly a centre-left Social Democrat party.

With no Indepedence question to resolve there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference between the two.

So I guess potential outcomes are

that one or other party disbands or receives such a heavy defeat in an election that it is killed off
a merger between the SNP and Labour (which I think might be painful given the personal animosities I’ve observed) which forms the Scottish National Labour Party
some kind of Irish situation where people vote for the SNP or Labour based more on tribal loyalties than ideology or policy
the Labour Party nudges left forming becoming a left-wing party, with the SNP as a centre-left party, the Lib-Dems as a centerist party and the (renamed) Conservative Party as a centre-right party.

I’m not sure what the Conservatives would call themselves. Post the adoption of the 2018 constitution and the establishment of the independent Scottish socialist workers paradise I’m not sure how you could call a party which said “none of that, what we’ve got is rubbish” Conservative.

Date: 2012-02-01 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
Mmmh - likely.

My guess is a lot depends on how the various parties do in the general election immediately after a Yes vote and how they position themselves.

Too many permutations for me to really get a handle on.

Date: 2012-02-02 08:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
The SNP do share with Labour a bit of habit of legislating a day or so behind the front pages.

Date: 2012-02-01 11:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
Transgender People are Completely Banned From Boarding Airplanes in Canada (unless they've had reassignment surgery)

I definitely shouldn't have read any of the comments on that one...

Date: 2012-02-01 12:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
I've probably not scrolled down enough yet as so far I'm merely amused.

> Im appalled that you are appalled by this law and can’t think for yourself. A passport first of all: doesn’t read Gender…It reads Sex…a genetic male can identify themselves as female and vice-versa…that would be gender…but sex denotes your biology, not your gender – they are two different things but thats why they ask your sex not gender.

This is technically correct... thus the corollary is that *everyone* should be asked to drop their pants and show that their bits correspond with what's written in their passport... ROTFL!

Date: 2012-02-01 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marrog.livejournal.com
Sure, but that comment misses the mark completely because it overlooks the idea that you could be marked as 'Sex: M' but if your picture on the passport and you in real life match, what difference does it make if you're a 'Sex: M' in a dress? There are already rules about people looking similar enough to their passport photos - if you significantly change your appearance you're meant to get your passport changed - so all the argument about gender vs. sex is entirely irrelevant to the argument. It's not even about 'passing' or whatever - by this rule if I show up at the airport dressed in a tux (by no means out of the realms of possibility) I could be turned away for non-conformity.

It's dangerously discriminatory in principle, and particularly so to pre/non-op MtFs, because us girls in a practical sense dress as dudes every day so a pre-op FtM and a girl dressed in jeans is, for the purposes of this check, essentially identical - I strongly doubt a girl will be turned away for being in trousers and a men's shirt, and if a pre-op but post-hormones FtM had facial hair, well, that would require a change to their passport photo anyway and there are most definitely women with facial hair.

Basically, it's a huge, deeply ignorant balls-up by someone who's ideas of gender identity are rooted in the 1950s, but that doesn't make the argument itself about sex vs. gender, and some people are too thick to see that and basically shouldn't be allowed the internet.

If the original plan to explode every computer still using AOL in the 2k bug had worked, none of this would be happening.

At the end of the day I shouldn't ever read the comments in an article talking about gender or transgenderism because I am guaranteed to be deeply irritated by both sides of the argument.

Date: 2012-02-01 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
"Only UK film ever banned for blasphemy gets a rating after 23 year ban"

Huh. Well, well done to the BBFC for being pro-active in responding to changes in the law, I guess.

"What is it like to be in a relationship with someone who has Asperger's? - Quora"

That was very moving.

"Self-steering bullet researched. Well, they say bullet, you might say tiny, tiny missle."
"We can now convert thoughts into sounds"

It's always the things I thought were completely ridiculous that turn out to have actually been invented!

When I heard the concept of self-steering bullets I thought "why would they be bullets, rather than missiles", but apparently self-guided by non-self-propelled bullets do make sense.

Date: 2012-02-01 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
The comment in the gangs article about Steven Lawrence and the Met having long memories struck me as ironic.

Date: 2012-02-01 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undeadbydawn.livejournal.com
Same Sex Marriage

Note to the Roman Catholic Church: Marriage existed before the Roman Catholic Church, you massively occluded fucking idiots. You just defeated your own argument.

which, in fairness, is probably the smartest thing you've done for a century or so.

Date: 2012-02-01 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
If people want "ethical" phones/electronic equipment then companies should make them but charge a premium for the more expensive labour. It would be funny to see how many people objecting about something they bought being made in an Evil Foreign Country With No Proper Labour Laws Unlike Our Own Glorious Country (note: capitalised statement re labour laws does not apply to some American states) would go very quiet and admit they didn't mind that much if the alternative was an identical product costing a lot more.

Wait, damn - this is an amazing idea, Apple could make millions with "ethical" versions of all their products that are exactly the same, but you get to spend more money to purchase them!

Date: 2012-02-01 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
They could take some cues from organic food by implying non-specific health benefits too!

Perhaps phones not made by supposedly suicidal Chinese workers would not broadcast dangerous wifi rays and might microwave your frontal lobes/testicles/ovaries less. Or whatever it is that phones do.

It's like the hilarious bit in an article about British pork standards where a farmer said something along the lines of "everyone knows those foreigners do horrible things when no one is looking" as part-justification for why British was better. There were actual stats later, but the assumed sinister nature of foreign farmers was quite funny.

Date: 2012-02-01 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] errolwi.livejournal.com
Well, they say bullet, you might say tiny, tiny missle.
Well, we don't call a guided artillery shell or mortar bomb a 'guided missile', so probably not. It's even debatable if a ICBM is a 'guided missile'.

Date: 2012-02-01 08:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] errolwi.livejournal.com
This is a common source of confusion.
A missile in this sense (as opposed to a generic missile, anything moving through the air e.g. includes arrows, thrown rocks, bullets) is a shortened version of 'guided missile'. A guided missile is normally defined as being guided and powered - being launched by an external source doesn't count. A 'rocket' (e.g. FROG Free Rocket Over Ground, WW2 aircraft-luanched rockets) is powered, normally stabilised (e.g fixed fins) but not guided - it will go where it is pointed at launch, subject to wind, gravity etc.
If you put a laser homer and guidance fins on an aircraft bomb, then you have a guided bomb (most laser and/or GPS guided bombs are kits added to standard bombs). If you put a laser homer (or GPS) and steerable fins on an artillery shell we don't call it a missile (see Copperhead). Booster and laser/GPS on an artillery shell probably meets some technical definitions, but I don't think they are refered to as missiles (see 'Extended Range Guided Munition').
Adding guidance to something pushed out of a tube by an explosion (even if the explosion is of explosives loaded into one end of the tube at the same time as what comes out of the tube) wouldn't normally cause it to be called a guided missile.

Date: 2012-02-01 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skreidle.livejournal.com
In a small-world aside, I'm 99% certain that I know the top responder to the Asperger's question. :)

Date: 2012-02-02 09:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I think I know more than a hundred people active on the internet, although I admit, not more than a hundred at the same time :)

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