Very cool, if true

Very good point. I really should know better. I'll change it now.

And thank you for phrasing that in a very reasonable manner.

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wildeabandon.livejournal.com

Ach, references to chromosomes and/or genitalia are such common ways of denoting gender that it's very easy to without thinking do even if you do know better.

Still every time I point something like this out I worry that I'm going to be jumped on for being oversensitive, so thank you for responding as you did.

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zz

wait, if it says "being a man", does that mean you've already changed it?

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Yup. Before it said "having a Y chromosome."

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zz

right, this thread makes much more sense now :>

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gonzo21.livejournal.com

Can't say I like the echoes of Determinism implicit in those.

How is ones life not about ones self? Surely we are each the center-stage actors of our individual existences? Experiencing and relating to the world directly through our own personal narrative framework?

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I'd say that treating your life as being centred around you is setting you up for disappointment when don't get the results that a central character would do in fiction.

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zz

how else would you treat your life?

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As a thread, interweaved with many other threads.

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zz

you're here to see the tapestries?

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???!!! Why the *fuck* would someone expect to get the results you get in fiction? There is a slight difference between fiction and life... I rather hope that most people can tell...

Yes, I am aware that we all make it up to certain degree, we create our own internal narratives post-hoc to 'justify' or explain within our own observed/experienced frameworks what are largely subconscious/instinctive actions - but that still doesn't make it a bloody novel/film.

So who/what have you been reading/debating too much of recently, Mr Ducker?

(sorry for the swearing but there is no other adequate way to forcefully enough express my total bewilderment).

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People do seem to expect that though. They think of themselves as being different - as being the primary movers, rather than a bit player. And they may not consciously intend that, but that's how they end up behaving.

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zz

why would anyone want to be a bit player? all the good/interesting stuff happens to the main characters. :>

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But there is no overall story. There is no plot.

[maybe we need a repost of the "which set of dots is random" test...]

However, the only thing you definitely have the use of / any degree of control over IS yourself (to be clear here, I very much think of 'myself' as my entire physical and mental existence taken as a whole, the latter being a function of the former.)

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momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com

Life and fiction are quasi-interchangeable in my experience. Far too much of my life reads like a plot from a bad novel -- the coincidences and ironies are sometimes too unbelievable.

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momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com

Right -- 'centred about you' does not mean (to me) the same as 'about you'.

The sequence of events that happened to me that make up my life is about me, by definition. I am the person who experiences my life; that makes it about me.

I think more clarification is needed on what's meant by 'not about you'...

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I still plan to live forever or die trying.

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pete stevens (from livejournal.com)

In this house we obey the second law of thermodynamics!

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OK the second law could be a bit of a bugger. Still, we've got at least a trillion years to worry about that one.

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You know, to *ME*, I AM rather bloody important, it *IS* about me and I damned well *AM* in a great deal of control about the outcome.

I have no issue that I am not all that important to other people/the world/the universe, and from *their* point of view it's not about me, and I may have only very limited control over a lot of areas in which I cannot directly or indirectly act. I've only reall got (with any accuracy or effectiveness) *MY* point of view. I am the instrument with which I interact with the universe and that's not changing anytime soon :-).

None of that seems at all hard either. Life and getting what you want out of it usually takes effort, application, invention, patience, etc. etc. but I wouldn't call that *hard*. It's not like there are actually any other options (well saving a premature proof of point 1)

Taken in one way, I think that your 'truths' are depressingly and unhelpfully defeatist. I doubt you actually meant it that way - but there are people that would.....

Point 1, I will give you (but it doesn't much matter, because, let,s face it, I'm not going to notice much afterwards, eh?)

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You have influece over your future, you do not have control.

You may well be important to you, but that doesn't make you important in general.

And if you behave as if you do have control, and are generally important, then you are setting yourself up for failure and disappointment.

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zz

but "control" in the list is easily inferred as meaning "influence", rather than a strict definition.

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read my 2nd paragraph. Where I say pretty much that.

My point is that those 'truths' as stated are ambiguous as to the viewpoint employed and that, as such, if taken from the personal viewpoint, can be seen as defeatist and helpless and abrogating personal responsibility for one's actions.

Where do you draw the line between influence and control? I don't claim to control everything - that'd be daft, but my own general situation and path in life in the short/medium term - as near as dammit. I mean a tree/rock etc could fall on me or I could catch some weird disease or there could be zombie apocalypse and of course I don't control any of that (except, perhaps if I am a mad scientist intent on zombie-creation), but mostly, it really is up to me how it goes. Not in every detail - but the fine details are rarely important, nor usefully or effectively plannable/optimisable in advance (as you know from software :-) ).

I think we are defining 'control' differently to some degree.

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hawkida.livejournal.com

All makes sense except for 4. If my life isn't about me, who the hell is it about? I'm definitely the main character, and I appear in EVERY scene, even if I'm not doing much.

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nancylebov.livejournal.com

The list assumes that grandiosity is the only problem. Additional points for defusing depression would be a good idea.

1. You're alive at the moment.
2. The fact that something hurts doesn't mean everything hurts.
3. You are not uniquely defective.
3. You have some influence over things, and can probably get more skillful at applying it.
4. People who give you advice don't necessarily know what they're talking about, they may just sound right.

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yalovetz

The list assumes that grandiosity is the only problem. Additional points for defusing depression would be a good idea.

True. And I suspect this list was primarily targeted at men because in a sexist society men are more likely to develop a sense of grandiosity about themselves, whereas women are more likely to be continuously cut down and disempowered and develop depression as a result.

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pennski.livejournal.com

Oh I like having this as a counter-balance.

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don-fitch.livejournal.com

I'm tempted to modify #4 to something like: "For you, your life might be all about you. Don't expect anyone else to view it that way".

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With a side note that your life will probably be happier if it's _not_ all about you.

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prove it :-)

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There've been studies on this - certainly with people over 50 their happiness tends to be correlated with two things: number of friends and being involved in their community. The more they were doing altruistic things for other people, the happier they were likely to be.

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phillipalden.livejournal.com

I would add:

6. The only constant is change.
7. The only time that matters is Now.

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Dammit, I should have asked people to give me their rules for life.

Tomorrow!

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phillipalden.livejournal.com

The only other thing I would add in answer to your question would be:

8. Compassion, Humility, Moderation*

(The three central themes of Taoism.)

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6. The only constant is change.

And the speed of light.

7. The only time that matters is Now. Not sure I know what this means?

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nickys.livejournal.com

> > 6. The only constant is change.

> And the speed of light.

I'm given to understand that an alternative theory on the Big Bang does involve the speed of light changing.

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Not widely accepted AFAICT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_speed_of_light

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phillipalden.livejournal.com

"Not sure I know what this means?"

It means living in the moment. Humans fret too much about the past and worry too much about the future.

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Life is not that hard.

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Interesting. Mine seems to be requiring about 60 hours of work per week at the moment.

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Is that hard?

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It requires thought and effort, frequently a lot of effort. It's certainly not _easy_.

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mind you I'm not sure "life is hard work" embodies the same sentiment as "life is hard" - the latter is usually used in the same kind of place as "life isn't fair".

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I think we're down to semantics at this point, and the different ways it will be taken by different people.

I mean, I don't think life is fair. I think that people can make it fairer, and I'm in favour of us doing that (up to a point), but expecting fairness is setting yourself up for a fall.

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well, yes, semantics.

I don't think that life is fair either. But I do think that I read "life is hard" in the same tone of voice, so to speak, as I might hear a parent saying "life isn't fair"; and that sounds different to me from "life is hard work". But of course there's nothing in the dictionary definitions that says I have to read those statements in the tones that I do.

From my position in a fairly cushy life, I'm not sure how much I can get away with expressing my views on "life isn't hard" because I know that I have it easier than many people. And anyway I can't articulate what I really mean which is something about the way that people, sometimes individually and sometimes as a society (which has to be fixed as a society) often make their lives seem harder than they need to.

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I read it as "Life's not a pushover. Things will not be handed to you on a plate. You may have to actually put some effort in."

Which is kinda true. If you don't do any of this (in the UK)you may well be able to live in a lifestyle to which 99% of the historical population of the planet would envy. But you will get much more out of it if you put the effort in.

And, frankly, I like my life being work. If it wasn't, I'd get bored. I could do without the work being focussed on things like damp problems in my walls though. I'd rather I got more choice in it :->

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