Now it's all over (kinda)

[andrewducker]

[Poll #1584929]

Personally, I'm torn between Ecclestone and Smith for favourite Doctor.

I've had an odd feeling from this season - it's seemed less dramatic than the previous ones, and part of me has felt less excited. But I've also enjoyed it a lot more. I think that part of me has been confused by NOT BEING SHOUTED AT ALL THE TIME, and has been wondering if that means the show isn't as good any more. Clearly not :->

Comments

[spacelem.livejournal.com]

Is that all the choice of Doctors I get? I wanted to answer Tom Baker (or none of the above)!

[andrewducker]

You don't have a least worst of the new lot?

[spacelem.livejournal.com]

David Tennant. I really can't warm to this new guy, he just hasn't earned my love yet.

Unfortunately, I find the whole new lot to be far too frantic and rushed. Of course the series are still very watchable, but I've been watching far more of the old series (Doctors 1-4), and been enjoying the pacing much more. Something like Horror of Fang Rock, or Talons of Weng Chiang, or The Daemons, they really blow all the modern stuff out the water. The same silliness is there, but it feels like it's not just silly because they didn't have time to flesh things out more.

Oh, and I absolutely despise that F'ing sonic screwdriver. It was never intended to be used like that.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

What I've loved about this latest series is that, despite the overarching plot being as Epic as it gets, it feels that much more contained, that much more controlled and small-scale in a way that RTD's Who didn't - RTD was always trying these supermassive large-scale plots and all it did was draw attention to the terrible CGI. Despite the Eleventh Hour involving the Doctor speaking to all the world's leaders it's always felt... the right size. Contained - their dark forest was on a wee spaceship. Their UK was in a... well, slightly bigger spaceship. The rest of the plots took place in wee towns. We never had to pretend we could see something beyond the edges of the set.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with your criticism of New!Who, but I wouldn't apply said criticism to this latest series, which I found to be small and, as such, perfectly formed.

[andrewducker]

Yeah - this.

See also my comment further down about The Doctor not needing to be an adored character.

[spacelem.livejournal.com]

I should make it clear that I don't hate the new series. I really have enjoyed watching them (except for some RTD moments that left me swearing). Steven Moffat has done a very good job, and is a big improvement over his predecessor¹, and I like the way he left little clues throughout, and as you say his contained sets worked pretty well.

It's just that (in general²) I prefer the older series.

--
1. I have to admit that RTD wrote Midnight, and that episode was brilliant.
2. Death to the Daleks, Attack of the Cybermen and Survival. The least said the better.

[momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com]

Ecclestone was great, and now it's come out about how he quit because of backstage drama (RTD perhaps?), I'm even more disappointed that we didn't get more of him.

He was a quite unusual Doctor though. Smith is much more in line with the tradition, despite the age.

[matgb]

I pretty much agree with this. I loved Ecclestone, but thought some of it was too hammy. Given the way Tennant was pretty much always too hammy, but has been bloody good elsewhere, I think that that was what RTD wanted.

He brought the show back to t'telly. Moffat's brought Doctor Who back. Wonder if he'll somehow get Ecclestone (and maybe even McGann?) in for a 2/3/4 Doctors thing? That'd be possible now I suspect.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

I have been to some extent reconciled to the new season and doctor by the finale. Overall it has not convinced me. It seems shallower than RTD - no, I mean it seems to be imitating the shallower aspects of the RTD seasons, as if that is now defined as what the public wants. I think the final two-parter to some extent overcomes this.

[andrewducker]

I'm curious as to why you feel that way - my main objection to RTD was the lack of any attempt at making sense, and the shoutiness of THE DRAMA in later seasons. Which bits felt shallow to you?

[communicator.livejournal.com]

Big question - what is 'shallow'? It's a word used a lot, but does it have a straightforward meaning? I think it means that there is a lack of appreciation of depth and complexity - a shallow person blunders about unaware of reservations and ambiguities, a shallow story has no substance outside of itself.

[andrewducker]

Aaah, so you feel that the stories lack any kind of substance outside of being "The Adventures of Dr Who"?

I'd say that that was largely true (with some minor attempts at larger applicability, such as Winston's attitudes to the Daleks, or thje depiction of Vincent's depression) - but that it also matches my memory of older Who.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

I would have loved to have seen Ecclestone get to be the Doctor in some more Moffat penned episodes.

Tennant was wasted in the RTD years.

[dapperscavenger.livejournal.com]

I love Rory. I think he's brilliant.

But I'm still warming up to 11. Not quite there yet. I do like him, I just don't adore him yet.

[andrewducker]

Yeah - but this is one of the things I like about this series. I don't feel The Doctor is someone who should be adored in a Cullen-like manner, he should be more complex than that, and not nearly as likable. Pulling back from that makes me happier :->

[dapperscavenger.livejournal.com]

It is perfectly possible to adore a character you don't like :)

[spacelem.livejournal.com]

DCI Jim Keats in Ashes to Ashes.

Great actor, horrible character!

[andrewducker]

Oh, absolutely. But it was more that I didn't necessarily want a Doctor that the audience fell madly in love with - at least not immediately. I'd rather have one who we liked and were entertained by. I sometimes felt that Tennant dominated the show, and I'd rather it was the other way around :->

[marrog.livejournal.com]

One of my vivid memories from the latest episode was the shot of the Doctor, strapped into the Pandorica, semi-conscious , head lolling back, and the blue light from the box hit his face and he looked completely alien - more like I dunno, Odo in DS9 than a human being. Like as his regenerations wain on he's becoming less and less human. And I just thought, how did I ever doubt that Matt Smith was anything less than perfect as the Doctor?

[andrewducker]

Well, I did doubt before he appeared. But I didn't leap into the "WHO IS THIS MATT SMITH? NOBODY CAN REPLACE OUR DAVID TENNANT. GIVE HIM BACK TO US!" fray. Partially because it seemed very silly, and partially because I remembered the "WHO IS THIS DAVID TENNANT? NOBODY CAN REPLACE OUR CHRISTOPHER ECCLESTONE! GIVE HIM BACK TO US." affair :->

But yes, he manages to be both young and old, human and alien at the same time, which is a damn fine achievement.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

My problem was never with David Tennant going - his time was up. I had just dearly wanted to see them do something different with the Doctor, and didn't want to see yet another easy-on-the-eye young heartthrob type take the role, which seemed to be the way they were going, picking up on the pale, silly-haired, skinny boy thing to cash in on the Edward Cullen effect.

My only hope at the time was that they would have a young man playing a very, very old, very alien Doctor. And to my delight, that's exactly what they've done.

[bracknellexile.livejournal.com]

The more I've seen of Matt Smith, the more he reminds me of Patrick Troughton in that slightly mad-cap jester sort of way. Specially when he talks to himself in ways that are nonsensical to the other characters and occasionally to the audience too. But like Troughton he could also be deadly serious when he had to and then you got that glimpse of the ancient and weary being underneath.

Matt Smith feels more like an 'old' Doctor (in the 1960's/70s/80s sense rather than 900 years) than the other two did. I like that.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

Matt Smith feels more like an 'old' Doctor (in the 1960's/70s/80s sense rather than 900 years) than the other two did. I like that.

Yeah, the whole of this latest season feels a lot more timeless, and I love it for that.

[blearyboy.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd go with the slightly heretical view that Eccleston wasn't actually that good. Or rather, he was brilliant in his own way but not very Doctor-ey. Matt Smith, on the other hand, seems to have regenerated directly from Sylvester McCoy.

[erindubitably.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_R5UJGt-g&feature=player_embedded

This season/Doctor has done a lot to bring the show around for me... I loved Ecclestone but couldn't really get on board with a lot of the epic silliness that never quite fit together. I used to dislike watching it a lot of the time because I didn't have nostalgia coloring it for me and thus found it hard to suspend my disbelief and keep plugging along with a show that just wasn't that solid when you got down to it. This season has been a lot tighter, a lot better written, and overall more enjoyable than any of the others (of which I still haven't seen everything, granted).

[mooism.livejournal.com]

*grins at the video*

Me too.

I like the improved production values of New Who, but until this series, I felt it had lost its character, I felt it was taking the soap-opera-y bits too seriously.

Now I feel like it's not taking the soap opera bits too seriously, that it's treating them with respect but humour too. This series felt a bit schmaltzy a couple of times, but overall it feels like it's now back --- properly back.

[d-c-m.livejournal.com]

However I would like to add that I am thoroughly enjoying this season very much and enjoying the interplay between the characters. :) You bet I'm getting this on DVD.

[ipslore.livejournal.com]

I'm only up to 'Vincent and the Doctor' so far, but it seems like there's been a little too much 'Hey, remember that thing we showed you before? Turns out it totally doesn't work like you thought it did!', which is kinda bad for an arc-based show.

[andrewducker]

Anything in particular?

[ipslore.livejournal.com]

Mostly the behavior and abilities of the Angels in 'Time of Angels' and 'Flesh and Stone' vs the ones in 'Blink', and the reason why Amy can remember the clerics but not Rory.

[andrewducker]

The Angels thing also bothered me - couldn't see why they did that.

[draconid.livejournal.com]

I'm on the fence with Amy, but I ticked good because I think she's more good than bad.

I do agree that this season was less dramatic and the weaker episodes felt particularly flat. But the ongoing plot, the return of the angels, and the finale made it all worth while.