Immigration

[andrewducker]

Leaving asylum to one side for a moment as a special case:
[Poll #1558346]

Comments

[drainboy.livejournal.com]

I think it needs more context than that. I've no problem with people being allowed to live/work wherever they like, but what about claiming benefits, not integrating, creating alienating cultures within the culture they've economically migrated to or in other ways making the existing culture worse for the indigenous people of the place they've migrated to?

Not that I'm saying that indigenous people have a right to an intransient culture or that we should expect others to integrate with our culture without our culture integrating with theirs to some extent or that someone that's worked here for some amount of time isn't due to some amount of benefit if they become unemployed or fall ill or we should abandon care of children just because they're parents migrated here rather than were born here.

I guess in general I want people (indigenous or otherwise) to want to be fully functional members of society. Who want to add to society, integrate with their fellow human beings and not sponge off it. Fortunately for us we've a society that's relatively giving to those living off the state (it's not great, but you generally don't starve/end up homeless), which might attract the sort of people that don't want to work. It's a difficult situation with no answers that can be found in legislation without a good deal of people falling through the cracks.

[andrewducker]

I, my self, have a divergent culture from the mainstream of where I live. Always have done. I thus have a lot of sympathy for other people who don't want to conform to the identity of the people around them.

Having said that, I also want a cultural baseline enshrined in law (various bits of equality, freedom of speech, freedom from violence, etc.).

While I understand your worries in regards to immigrants taking more than they give, a brief bit of reading will tell you that, certainly the most recent set of immigrants give more than they take.

Most people want to work, if they can. Immigrants aren't an exception.

[momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com]

Why would people want to create an alienating culture in the first place? It's hardly fun.

[drainboy.livejournal.com]

Muslims wanting Sharia law in Britain. I was about to say "possibly a limited subset of Muslims" but surely their religion demands Sharia law and any true Muslim would want it?

I find any law that gives a woman's word half the value of a man's, alienating.

And anyone that goes to a country long term and doesn't bother learning the language would be fairly alienating. I'd feel ashamed if I moved to France and didn't bother learning French.

[andrewducker]

Only in the same way that any "true Christian" would want homosexuals stoned to death. There are a wide range of Muslims and lots of them are very happy to have secular law over the country.

"There is tremendous variety in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic Law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of Sharia from a variety of perspectives; Islamic feminism brings multiple points of view to the discussion. Some of the largest Muslim countries, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic Law provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is officially strongly secular."