Remember, remember the 11th of November

[andrewducker]

I noticed today that pretty much nobody in my office is wearing a poppy, and that this is definitely a change from five years ago.
[Poll #1483907]

Comments

[cdave]

Most people who I see with a poppy have it on their coat, or suit jacket, so I can't actually see that many while they're sat down at their desks.

[meihua.livejournal.com]

I genuinely don't think I know anybody who is wearing a poppy.

[woodpijn.livejournal.com]

I noticed today that pretty much nobody in my office is wearing a poppy

I noticed something similar last year: http://woodpijn.livejournal.com/3619.html

I ticked both "no poppy" and "red poppy", because I did buy a poppy this year and wear it up until Remembrance Sunday, but then so few other people were wearing them that I got a bit confused and thought maybe they were only supposed to be worn up until Sunday rather than today, so took it off.

[recycled-sales.livejournal.com]

This is a total aside, but our work signalled the beginning of the 2 minutes silence with what sounded like the Combine alert noise from Half Life 2.

Lest we should forget our fallen mutant alien brethren.

[seph-hazard.livejournal.com]

I refuse point blank to wear one, and if I 'had' to (eg for a TV appearance) I would wear a white one, though not otherwise. I must confess I do feel that it plays into a herd mentality, I don't want people to assume that I support the vast majority of military action, I think patriotism is inherently dangerous and I feel very strongly that the government should be supporting all elderly and disabled people, regardless of their previous occupation.

[johncoxon.livejournal.com]

Does believing that the Government should do better to prevent homophobia prevent you donating to Stonewall? Does believing that the Government should do more to protect children from abuse prevent you donating to the NSPCC? Does believing that the Government should do more to aid the deaf and the blind prevent you donating to charities that provide aid to those people? Does believing that the Government should do more to make our beaches and shores safe prevent you donating to the RNLI?

I could get away with never donating any money to charity under the statement "the Government should be doing more about $problem".

[seph-hazard.livejournal.com]

...I actually worded that really badly. What I meant wasn't that I won't donate because the government should be doing better instead - that would be ridiculous, for the reasons you point out - but that I have no interest in working to improve the lives of *specifically* that group of disabled/elderly people, as the notion that they are somehow more deserving than any other disabled/elderly people bothers me immensely.

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

Very many of those who benefit from the Poppy Appeal are a long way from elderly. Ditto for the close families of those who died.

As for white poppies, I have a bit of an issue with them because it seems to me that they make an implicit criticism of the red poppy that doesn't stand up to reason. Red poppies aren't red because of warmongering or bloodthirstiness - they're red because, well, poppies are red. If it had been daffodils that grew in the Flanders fields after the Armistice then we'd be wearing them for Remembrance day instead.

But equally I don't think anyone should be put into the position of feeling that they have to wear a poppy.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

Erm, why is you think people wear white poppies exactly? I do not think it means what you think it means.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

*scritches head* Most of the people I know who wear white poppies don't do it as a criticism of the red poppy or its symbolism, but as a sign that they hope for peace rather than war and are donating money towards that end. And most of them wear a red poppy in addition to the white one.

Just, not sure you've got the right meaning for why a white poppy is worn.

Really love your icon, btw. =)

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

Well, I've definitely met people who say that they feel sufficiently strongly that there is an issue with the red poppy that that want to wear a variant on it, and that the variant (i.e white) poppy stands for peace. In which case, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that the red poppy is seen as standing for the opposite of peace.

Indeed, to quote from the White Poppies for Peace website (http://www.whitepoppy.org.uk/):

...a growing number of people have been concerned about the poppy's association with military power and the justification of war.

When I first encountered the white poppy (as an undergraduate) it was very strongly put to me that Red Poppy = Militarism and that the white poppy was a reaction to this 'in a less warlike colour'.

But if you look at the history of the poppy it was never meant to be associated with war or militarism; it was a reaction to the horrors of both. (I don't think any of us today can meaningfully comprehend the trauma that WW1 inflicted on society; there was, for instance, a generation of women for whom marriage was a remote prospect because there were so few men.) I just can't feel comfortable with what seem to me like attempts to rewrite history to make a political point, no matter how well-intentioned.

Oh, and thank you for your nice comment about the icon. Here's another one.

[seph-hazard.livejournal.com]

Ditto other comments about that not quite being the point of the white poppy, but as I said I wouldn't wear one in the normal course of things - only if I was in a situation where there was a great deal of pressure to wear a poppy, such as a TV appearance around the 11th.

[anthrokeight.livejournal.com]

On the one of the hands, I think it's very important for people to donate money where they want it to go, not where other people should think it will go.

On the other of the hands, I disagree that veterans shouldn't be identified for care in particular. (If not more, than certainly with the recognition that they have different needs because they were in the military.)

In the USA, our Veterans Administration health care delivers routine care, true. But it is also responsible for specialized services, such as PTSD treatment, helper dogs for wounded people, prosthetics, psych services, and long term complications of injury.

I think most Americans (including those of us who would like to see Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bush prosecuted for war crimes) recognize a difference between government decisions about conflict and soldiers. If the soldier in question was in WWII or Vietnam, they may very well have been drafted, which is important to consider.

I also think the GI Bill, like the New Deal, was one of the best things the US government ever did.

Nations, at least, do have a responsibility to consider the needs of veterans as specific and possibly requiring more attention, even if individuals aren't required to do so.

[erindubitably.livejournal.com]

Neither I nor the cats are wearing poppies today.

[ashfae.livejournal.com]

The US doesn't do poppies, so I'm not in the habit even though I now live here; giving money for soldiers yes, wearing something to say I've done so, no.

About a third of the people around me are wearing poppies today.

[anton-p-nym.livejournal.com]

Most people in the office here today have their poppies; then again, it's a five-minute walk from here to the cenotaph and the local regiment was in Afghanistan recently so Rememberance Day is a lot more visible here.

-- Steve's great-uncle was wounded at Paaschendale, so he wears a red poppy every year.

[anton-p-nym.livejournal.com]

And because the subject line made it pop into my head, I offer, belatedly:

Remember, remember the 11th of November
The gunfire's causes and cost.
I see no reason that this season's
Purpose should e'er be lost.

-- Steve's brain works like that, sorry.

[sageautumn.livejournal.com]

Today is Veterans Day. There is a ten minute pause before lunch for a flag raising ceremony.

We don't do poppies, though.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

I bought a poppy and lost it in five mintues

[johncoxon.livejournal.com]

I have bought three poppies and I've saved one to wear for today but I haven't got any pins in the house...

[kashandara.livejournal.com]

Normally I would wear a white one, but this year I didn't have/take the time to arrange one, and decided I'd rather wear a red one than none at all.

[dapperscavenger.livejournal.com]

Few at work, but pretty much everyone was wearing them outside of work.

[accordingly.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen many people with a poppy today but that's because I've spent it in the library and no one has their jacket on.

[cybik.livejournal.com]

I'd be wearing a poppy if it hadn't fallen off and got lost about five minutes after I got it.

[cybik.livejournal.com]

Actually, I do wonder whether my view of the poppy being worn has anything to do with the various relatives who were or are in the military (most notably my great-uncle-of-sorts who I loved very much and had been at the Somme and various other of the major WWI battles). I have slightly complex feelings about it (I'm a pacifist, essentially, but there's more to it than that), but generally I'm in favour of the poppy appeal because I don't see it as celebrating the military or war, just as remembering people.

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

IAWTC. I also do it to respect various ancestors who lost friends and loved ones in at least WWI/WWII. For all that it takes me to do it, and for everything it represents, there's simply no question of not doing it.

[kimberly-a.livejournal.com]

I don't think I have ever seen anyone wear a poppy for Veteran's Day. Is it not a U.S. thing?

[andrewducker]

From that link it looks like it's not common in the US, more of a Canadian/UK thing.

[a-pawson.livejournal.com]

It's not. Veteran's Day is rather different in the US. A friend of mine explains it far better than I can.

http://anthrokeight.livejournal.com/210719.html

[andrewducker]

Thanks - that was fascinating.

[anthrokeight.livejournal.com]

Aw... I am being linked! Aaron, where have you been?

I didn't say on my own post, but I do think the 2min silence is a powerful ritual, and I wish we did have one as part of our national collective memory of WWI. Our memorial day is more 21 gun salutes and less silences, though.

[errolwi.livejournal.com]

I would like to complain about this poll. I'm in nz, and your questions don't cover the poppy day is the working day before ANZAC Day situation. That said, some people were wearing them on Sunday at the Armistice at Cambridge event I was at. I'm also going to Remembrance Day WWI airshow on Saturday.

[andrewducker]

Feel free to answer how it was on ANZAC day :->

[pennski.livejournal.com]

I wanted to buy a poppy - red or white - but I simply haven't seen anyone selling them!

We did observe the 2mins silence today.

[odheirre.livejournal.com]

I thought you said "puppy".

[soon_lee]

New Zealand does poppies, but on ANZAC Day (25 April). Wearing red poppies on that day is relatively commonplace.

[random-redhead.livejournal.com]

i have two this year and they always end up on the wrong coat when i leave the house.

Is it important to get a new poppy each year? to be donating to support the Brittish Legion? or is it ok to keep wearing the same one year in year out? I think it is important to get new but thats just my opinion.

[andrewducker]

If you're doing it to show support then it doesn't matter if you buy one. If you're trying to actually support them then I'd say it was necessary to give a donation.

[rhythmaning.livejournal.com]

I wasn't wearing a poppy because so far this year I have bought - and lost - three, and I am afraid I gave up trying to wear one.

[moniqueleigh]

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in the southern USA, we typically wear poppies around Memorial Day in late May. From what I've read, our Memorial Day is much the same as Remembrance Day there. Here, 11 Sept is Veterans' Day, which is specifically geared to living veterans instead of those who died in battle (and Memorial Day has been expanded to include fallen firefighters, police, etc.) Also, we generally see more purple poppies than red around here. No idea why...

[xquiq.livejournal.com]

In my office nearly all mid to senior management or customer facing colleagues wear a poppy. Among more junior staff it varies (where junior can mean anything up to about £30k basic). The more senior, the more likely they are to wear a poppy.

I cycle to work & consider this a success if I remember my shoes, lunch & laptop on the same day. Remembering to remove a poppy from one suit & put it on another is a challenge ;)

I wouldn't wear a white poppy personally. While I know the majority wearing it are in no way meaning to be disrespectful, I don't think it would go down well in my office at all.

[broin.livejournal.com]

"The more senior, the more likely they are to wear a poppy."

Why do you reckon that is? Older? Keeping up appearances?