My brain, it hurts

[andrewducker]

Off work today - was up coughing half the night.  Why haven't they cured disease yet?

Anyway - following lizbee's post comparing the looks of Henry VIII and Prince William Julie asked me which of his children survived, so I went digging into Henry VIII - and was amused to discover that three of his four children became rulers of the country.  Is this a record?  Does it take a uniquely English fucked-up-ness to achieve this kind of thing?

Comments

[nwhyte]

Three of the sons of Edward The Elder deinitely became King of England - Athelstan, Eadred, and Edmund; and it's not clear if the eldest son, Ælfweard, also got some reigning time in.

But it's not peculiarly English. Three sons of Louis II of France (Louis III, Carloman II and Charles III) ended up ruling, as did three sons of Henry II (Francois II, Charles IX and Henry III).

Looking north, no fewer than five of the sons of Malcolm III (Malcolm Canmore) ruled Scotland: Duncan II, Edmund, Edgar, Alexander I and David I.

William the Silent was succeeded as Prince of Orange by three of his sons in turn (Philip William, Maurice and Frederick Henry).

Henry VIII's children are not unusual in that so many of them became monarchs. What is more unusual is that two of them became reigning queens rather than kings, and that one of the three was of a different religion to the other two.

[andrewducker]

Thank You!

I do love my friends list :->

[cybik.livejournal.com]

And also Henry VIII's children were by different women. Elizabeth was from a marriage that was annulled later and she was declared illegitimate. Rather interestingly Anne Boleyn was charged with adultery (along with incest and treason), which is rather silly, since the marriage had just been annulled and therefore adultery was technically impossible!

[nwhyte]

Yeah, but the multiple marriages thing is true of others - William the Silent for one.

[cybik.livejournal.com]

Oh of course, but he was particularly quick at going through them. Five wives in ten years is a large count by anyone's standard!

I have to say I find Henry VIII a completely unappealing character.

[makyo.livejournal.com]

Also, I think I'm right in saying that the alleged adultery took place before her marriage to Henry.

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

Had Prince Edward Augustus lived until 1837 rather than dying in 1820, then he would have become King on the death of William IV, and would have been the third son of George III to reach the throne. This would by no means have been impossible; he died at 52 after a short illness, whereas most of his siblings who survived infancy lived into their sixties or seventies.

What this would have done to the succession is unclear. He had only one child, who became Queen Victoria. Had he lived another 17 years, Victoria (or rather Princess Alexandrina Victoria) would have been his eldest child, but it's entirely possible if not likely that he would have produced a son by then who would have succeeded him and kept the House of Hanover on the throne through what we call the Victorian era.

[joexnz.livejournal.com]

with actually looking it up, and if you don't count reigning in the country of birth and only being married to the monarch, rather than being the monarch

how well did queen vic's kids do??

[matgb]

Her kids didn't rule themselves, for the most part, but married well. But all the current crowned heads of Europe bar the Dutch are descended from her.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I remembered a few pairs of siblings rulings, amongst a lot of other turmoil (esp. in wars of the roses), but when I looked it up there were quite a lot and I'd only remembered the most notable.

There were some threes before the conquest (according to wikipedia), but no others afterwards. Henry still feels like the winner, though, for having such a quick succession of children (including, in some sense, Jane), followed by Elizabeth.

Pre-conquest:

* Ethelbald, Ethelbert, Ethelred, Alfred the Great
* Elfward, Athelstan the Glorious, Edmund the Magnificent, Eadred
* Saint Edward the Martyr, Ethelred the Unready
* Harold Harefoot, Harthacanute
* Edmund Ironside, Saint Edward the Confessor (Half brothers, Edmund was deposed by the Danish, and Edmund apparently from his half-brother through his mother). Hence:
* Harthacanute, Saint Edward the Confessor

Post-conquest, things settle a little:

* William II & Henry I
* Henry the Young King, Richard I, John Softsword[1]
* Henry VI, Henry VI (if you count single children who obtain the throne twice)
* Edward IV, Edward IV, Richard III (ditto)
* Edward VI, Mary, Elizabeth
* Charles II, James II
* Mary II, Anne
* George IV, William IV
* Edward VIII, George VI

[1] I mean, seriously, did this guy have the worst PR or what? "Bad", "Lackland", and now "Softsword"! :)

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

(Henry the Young King co-reigning only during his father's life.)

[ophelia-complex.livejournal.com]

The fourth was his illegitimate son with Bessie Blount? He was trying to legitimise him, but he (the son) died.

He may have had a son and a daughter with Mary Boleyn, making 6.

[cybik.livejournal.com]

Try looking at the family trees of Heian periods Japanese emperors.. It's like a maze. http://moritas.org/Before/fujiwara.htm

The wikipedia entry about Fujiwara Michinaga (never an emperor since he wasn't of the royal family, but always there in the background), it says "he was father to four (non-reigning) empresses, uncle to two emperors and grandfather to another three."

It's not quite the same as having three of your children rule outright, but as the head of the Fujiwaras he was pretty well the most influential man around..

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Sick *again*?? Get better soon!!! Either your workplace or your friends must be totally lurgy-ridden...

[andrewducker]

I just checked my work log from last year - I was off for four days in total, a day in March, a day in July and one in October. More than I'd like, but not _that_ bad.

[henriksdal.livejournal.com]

The comments on this post are very informative, I love it. Personally I think Wills looks more like George V. I think. The one who reigned in WWI. Very Kingly, anyway!

[marrog.livejournal.com]

I quite like the beard, but am continually amazed by the way he's slowly turning from his mother into his father as he ages, poor boy.