The world can't live up to my idealism

[andrewducker]

Way back in June I posted a poll asking whether people were satisfied with life. I meant to post something a few days later explaining why I wasn't - but as usual life intervened. I never seemed to be in the right mood to write about _why_ I'm not satisfied with life. Because I'm fundamentally not.

Which isn't to say that I can't enjoy life (I do, a lot of the time) or be happy (I am, a lot of the time) - it's just that underlying it all is the knowledge that real, actual, physical life doesn't live up to my idealised feeling of how life should be. I'm an idealist at heart - I _know_ how life should be, and I'm disappointed when the realities and complexities of actual life differ from that. Reality feels like a busted wonder, a badly specified system, a brain-damaged genius - there are occasional flashes of how it should be, and a lot of the time you can see the sheer beauty of which it's capable, but there's always a niggling feeling of failure wrapped up in it. The world should have magic around every corner, and no matter how wonderful the things in it are they just don't live up to that.

And I also know that this attitude isn't reasonable, or logical - the world is what it is, and being disappointed because it fundamentally differs from how I'd like it to doesn't help in any way. But this isn't logical - it's pure emotion, and not something I've ever found a way of dealing with. Not that it bothers me much 99% of the time - and not at all 95% of it. But occasionally, when I get into a black mood, I'm reminded of it - and that no matter what, I'm never completely satisfied with the world.

Comments

[johanna-alice.livejournal.com]

99.9% of the time I see the world through cynical, critical eyes, and my idealism taunts me with what things could be like... perhaps my imagination is too good.

What feeds that though is the 0.1% of the time where I realise there is something truly beautiful, magical or wonderful there in front of me. In those times I think I am satisfied with the world in front of me.

[ninox.livejournal.com]

It could never be perfect. Individual idealised worlds are never fully compatible. If they were and we did the context would be lost. It is part of our nature to strive for more and never be content.

I tend to enjoy the complexity of emotions and the chaos of life. Viewing it more as challenges and learning curves. It is the idea of this adaptability and change that I enjoy most. I mostly don't see things as good or bad, more a confusion of states. My mood at the time can alter perception of the same scenario.

I suppose it could be argued that I shun the idea of perfection because I view it as unachievable and prefer to have my feet in reality over idealism.

[andrewducker]

Prefer?

You're talking as if I have a choice...

[ninox.livejournal.com]

I know many people that would prefer to retreat to their own little fantasy land. It depends on how much you enjoy interacting with the world around you.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

You need more magic mushrooms :)

[andrewducker]

Actually, that kind of thing has helped - because it _does_ make the world feel more magical.

Not so much use the next day though.

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

that's why I said it. You did look blissful on magic mushrooms in a way i've never seen you since or before.

[i-ate-my-crusts.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. If I think about it too long, I start to feel like I'm not making the most of my life, and that it should be this kind of filled, energised thing.

But after about five minutes I realise I'm content and happy and pretty satisfied 99% of the time, and i go back to lounging around the intertubes. :)

[andrewducker]

Yeah - when I'm feeling happy I can just say "I don't care whether life has intrinsic meaning and magic.", but when my defenses are low it's the main thing that plagues me.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

I disagree that life cannot be perfect - I think all life is in a constant evolving state of perfection - which is to say it will be perfect at one minute, and the next minute perfect thought utterly different.

The reason for this is balance - we are greedy and want perfection in everything we strive for and strive for many different things at once, whereas often you life will be focused in one different area .

I am very blessed and (99% of the time, Black Descensions notwithstanding etc)cannot imagine a better life than I have now. I can imagine certain elements being more ideal, but am confident that this is part of the flux, and part of growing and that they will be. Were I to have more money, more talent, flawless relationships, more time, more respect, etc etc there would be nothing left to do and I wouldn't know how to spend my days - other than creating even more of these things, which means that state would not be perfect.

Anyway, I say that not to brag - I appreciate that whatever metaphysical arguments you put on it, some states people experience are bad states - but wondered if you - or any of the others so dissatisfied with life - have reasons. My method in life is to identify things that I want and work out the best ways of getting them. This can take days, months or years, but the feeling that you are on the path can often be what provides the satisfaction in itself. This has always seemed self evident to me but as I go through life I meet more and more people who are doing jobs they are only satisfied with because they are good at them, hate where they live but they've always lived there so they carry on, and continue to buy eggs; when secretly they want to run off to Poland, live in a caravan and find new types of lace whilst living on sauerkraut. Or, you know, less extreme examples, but any variation on a genuine 'I'd love to do...x y or z' with no intention of ever doing it.

Essentially, people seem to strive towards satisfaction and stop when they have it, but being satisfied isn't actually good enough.

Anyway, sorry. They're just my thoughts today. I'm going to have to go look at shoes or something else incredibly shallow to make up for that long wankiness which may or may not make sense to any other human being.

Lxxx

[andrewducker]

I think all life is in a constant evolving state of perfection - which is to say it will be perfect at one minute, and the next minute perfect thought utterly different.

We clearly differ over definitions of perfection. I'm talking about pure transcendence and joy - the kind of thing that heaven is theoretically supposed to represent, and which actual material things can never live up to, no matter how great they are.

I am actually very happy with my job at the mo - it's pretty much as good as jobs get for me - and the annoyances that crop up in it are more minor than at any previous one. Not everything in my life is as great, but it's mostly at least in the "pretty darn good" stage.

And don't ever apologise for waxing lyrical in my journal again, or I'll hit you with sticks.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

"transcencence and joy"

the way I find that is to pay the most intense attention to the right now and the right here, with every bit of sensory power I possess - balanced with a wide awareness of all that I can't currently detect.

and no fear - there is no need...never any need.

[excursively.livejournal.com]

I've recently discovered that, I too, am an idealist at heart. This came through a fair amount of discovery that included deep ruminations about why I thought I was a realist, but kept getting knocked upside the head by other people's opinion of reality. Thus, my understanding, for now at least.

Your thoughts confirm my discovery. I feel exactly this way, i.e. fundamentally not satisfied. I'm trying to discern if I've always felt this way, or if it's something new, some part of getting older, for example.

While I agree that the "struggle for more" is part of our nature, I disagree with the idea that "never be content" is as well. I believe that we do have the ability to be perfectly content, even if we're not fully satisfied. It is very interesting to me, however, to think about how my idealized world might conflict with yours, and whether they could both exist despite this.

Oftentimes I find that there's only so much acceptance that I can take. And while I, too, realize this isn't logical, and that there are certain things I just don't have the ability to change, I wonder if we sometimes change things about ourselves, and even our way of thinking, in order to get a bit closer to what we think is ideal, even if logically there's no reason to do so.

[andrewducker]

Once again I seem to be lost in semantics - as I'm not sure what the difference between "content" and "satisfied" is. Unless content means "not dissatisfied"?

Your last point isdefinitely true - I've changed myself repeatedly to get closer to who my ideal self is - and of course there's no reason to do so except that it makes me happier (at least, it seems to).

[yalovetz]

it's just that underlying it all is the knowledge that real, actual, physical life doesn't live up to my idealised feeling of how life should be.

I'm not sure I quite understand this and was wondering if I could ask a few questions to help get clear in my head what you're talking about feeling here?

When you say life, do you mean your personal path in life or is it something bigger you're thinking about? If it's something bigger, is it on the scale of the global political/economic situation or on the scale of the sheer fact of the existence of rocks and trees and planets and weevils and paperclips and all kinds of other things?

Do you mean that you have an actual clear picture of the way things should be in your mind, or is it just some nebulous sense that something, somewhere, somehow should be better?

Don't feel obliged to answer, I'm just curious.

[andrewducker]

It is, indeed, the sheer nature of existence itself.

And my basic problem is with the lack of meaning inherent in the universe. Like most people I feel like the universe is meaningful, but I'm also aware that the meaning is extrinsic, and that in actuality we're a microscopic part of a universe that doesn't actually give a damn about us. It's this conflict that makes me intrinsically disatisfied with the whole job lot of it.

Deep down, underneath it all, there is a lack of point. I can distract myself from that, and even be happy with the things that are distracting me, but eventually I am reminded of said pointlessness.

[yalovetz]

Thanks, I think I understand a bit better now. :)

I think my own feelings veer off in the exact opposite direction to yours from the same basic starting point. Which is an equally irrational response so I guess I'm just lucky. ;)

[andrewducker]

Now _I'm_ intrigued. Please to be describing said opposite direction...

[yalovetz]

Well, I find the sheer unexplainability of the universe utterly awe-inspiring. A lack of point isn't the same as pointlessness (the latter has a value-judgement attached to it in a way that the former doesn't) and I happen to find that the universe's fundamental lack of point strikes me as something astonishing and rather wonderful.

I discovered this around the age of 17 in the course of attempting to describe to my classmates why I found Waiting for Godot to be a thoroughly life-affirming play...

I also think that this sense of wonder at the unexplained and fundamentally meaningless is the basic feeling behind my well-established atheism - positing God as an explanation takes away from the true wonder of the universe in my book.

[andrewducker]

I agree that the lack of meaning does give an infinite amount of freedom to establish ones own point, which is definitely a plus point.

And I also have a sense of wonder at the unexplained (and, indeed, at a fair chunk of the explained).

I suspect that part of my problem is that I tend to be goal-oriented, and setting my own goals tends to set me off on an apocalypticly recursive regress.

[yalovetz]

I agree that the lack of meaning does give an infinite amount of freedom to establish ones own point, which is definitely a plus point.

I don't know how much freedom we really have though, psychologically. We're talking about feelings here and I don't think either of us feels like we've freely chosen our emotional responses to the meaninglessness of the universe; it just is what it is and we have to live with it.

[andrewducker]

Well, on one level I don't actually believe in free will, so I can't really argue that we have any freedom over what we believe. And certainly the human mind is better adapted to believing certain things suited to being story-telling apes. But nevertheless lacking a single source of all meaning means that the theoretical interpretations open to us are a lot less limited.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

it's *your* universe - it can only ever be what you make of it.

(well, actually, it's mine, but it might help you to think about it that way)

[andrewducker]

It is not my universe. My universe exists solely within my head, and will end with my death.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

It is.

Pretty close to what I think (though 'everything is part of me' is closer, I suppose. Like Kelly, I AM God [or that's certainly the easiest, if not 100% accurate way to put it. Gives the right emotional flavour.]).

'until your death' is forever.

[andrewducker]

No, it's not.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

which part?

prove it.

[andrewducker]

People have died. "Forever" is not over. Therefore "until you die" is not the same as "forever".

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

It is to you. Which is the only viewpoint you can have.

[andrewducker]

No it's not. I can have a much larger viewpoint than that. I can be aware that the world exists outside of my extreme parochial and limited viewpoint. And as the vast majority of the problems in the world have been caused by people refusing to deal with the world existing outside of their parochial and limited viewpoints, I can feel good about that.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

"The world should have magic around every corner, and no matter how wonderful the things in it are they just don't live up to that."

ah, but they do - to me. Now.

I wish I could tell you how I got here, but I doubt I can articulate it.

It's your world/universe/existence. You get what you want. Thing is, 'want' is much more than most people think it is...

[andrewducker]

Emphasis on _to you_. I'm looking for something objective, not subjective.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

There is no such thing as subjectivity when it comes to your experience of life.

What you're looking for is a feeling - therefore instrinsically subjective. Perhaps looking for objectivity is where you're going wrong?

By the way, channelpenguin (was desparately trying to remember how to do the format thing but fuck it), I don't know who you are but I like you. You are managing to say some of the stuff I was trying to say but in a much more articulate manner.

Lxxx

Lxxx

[andrewducker]

There is no such thing as subjectivity when it comes to your experience of life.
Did you mean "objectivity" in that sentence?

Perhaps looking for objectivity is where you're going wrong?
No perhaps about it. It's _exactly_ where I'm going wrong.

Channelpenguin was at my party - female, medium length hair, wearing a black top, IIRC. Passed out reasonably early, so you might not have seen her much.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

Yes I did mean objectivity. Sorry. That's what I get for pissing about on LJ in a secret way when I should be working.

Lxxx

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

Also elecicant who I thought was the same person.

[andrewducker]

ElectricAnt is also lovely - but sadly departing for Australia in a couple of weeks time - for two years.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

Well that's a shame. Hope s/he goes to the nice bits. And again, I was trying to type electricant, cam out a bit squoobled. (I like making up my own words cos then I can't get them wrong)

Lx

[andrewducker]

And let's face it, squooble is a perfectly cromulent word.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

thanks! I thought it might be coming over as semi-mystical twaddle (a valid subjective interpretation no doubt). I'm Kirsty if you have ever met me, and Andy and I have been having these sorts of conversations on and off for *censored* years.

I used to be very hung up on objectivity, would you believe.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you are. which is why the struggle - if you do solve it, please do let me know! A need for objective reality over all scales does seem incompatible with the kind of joy you are after. (at least so my experience has been). It's just a tool.