Thoughts before Sandman is released on TV

[andrewducker]

I first encountered Sandman with, I think, issues 8-12 in a cardboard box in a second-hand bookshop in Medway somewhere. I don't remember which bookshop it was, as it wasn't one I was in often. It was the summer of 1990, and I then set about buying all of the back issues and the several issues which had been produced since, as collections weren't something that was reliably produced for comics, and even when they were they were frequently released out of order. Comics, at that point, rarely produced a single coherent story for many issues, and it wasn perfectly normal to just fine to dip in and out of things, and be able to read things in whatever order you fancied.

All of which is to say that I've been a massive fan for 32 years now.

There have been fan-casting discussions since I first discussed comics online (first on the Monochrome bulletin board, and then on the Rec.Arts.Comics hierarchy), although I never took part in them myself. I did keep tabs on various terrible attempts to make it in the past (in 1998 there was a script which made Morpheus into Lucifer's brother. There was a producer who tried to insist on a fight with a giant mechanical spider, which then ended up in Wild Wild West.) It seemed unlikely, to me, that there could be a *good* adaptation of Sandman into a movie. And, frankly, given the levels of CGI at the time, I think I was right. Also, the chances of any writer compressing 75 issues of comic book into a movie seemed rather unlikely to me. I'm glad none of those got made.

But now they're making a TV series of it. And the level of CGI available today is frankly amazing. And they're putting 18 episodes of the comic into the first series, which means four seasons if they want to get through all of the main story, which feels about right. And Neil Gaiman is heavily involved. There's clearly no barrier to making the best possible Sandman adaptation.

So why am I nervous?

I'm nervous because I'm not actually sure that a great comic book translates into a great TV show, or a great movie, or a great novel, or a great computer album, or a great roleplaying game, any other medium. Things are what they are, and dialogue that works for one may sound awful in another. What works in imagination may not work well when you see it, and vice versa. This is why I've not enjoyed any adaptations of Terry Pratchett, with the exception of Troll Bridge, which doesn't feel like any of the other adaptations.

And so I'm worried not that they'll do a bad job, but that the best possible job will still not produce something great, and that I will be disappointed and left flat by it. I really hope I'm not.

Comments

[danieldwilliam]

I have enjoyed the Umbrella Academy adapation on Netflix but I have never read the comics on which it is based so I've no idea how faithful / good / direct an adaptation they are.

I also sort of enjoyed the Sin City films which were IIRC a frame by frame adaptation of the comics - and very deliberatly so.

The less said about 300 which is the only other comic adapation I'm aware of as film adapted from a comic the better.

I think most of the Marvel and DC films and series are inspired by rather than adapations of the comics.

[andrewducker]

I enjoyed season 1 of Umbrella Academy. Would like to season 2/3 at some point. The comics are much less good - sillier, and less cohesive, but also less sharply written. The TV writers have done a great job turning a molehill into a mountain.

Sin City was fun, but I prefer the comics.

300 I rather enjoyed at the cinema, in a very silly way. Felt no urge to read the books.

And yeah, Marvel and DC movies are regularly inspired by comic plots, but feel no need to be faithful.

Watchmen and V for Vendetta were both kinda-good adaptations, but both had failings that let them down somewhat.

I haven't read Road To Perdition, but the Tom Hanks movie was excellent.

Men In Black 1 was fun, haven't read the comics.

The Karl Urban Judge Dredd was great.

Persepolis was amazing.

Scott Pilgrim was fun, but I haven't read the comics there either. I heard good things though.

[jducoeur]

Umbrella Academy has drifted a long ways from the comic at this point. That's fine -- they grokked the underlying spirit of the comic, and that's the important part. Frankly, IMO the TV series is much better than the comic.

I've watched many, many TV and movie adaptations from comics, and the question is always, "Do they get it?" Do the producers and directors understand the important parts of the comic? And do they know how to produce a great TV series or movie? If both of those are true, I generally don't care much about the details.

(V For Vendetta is my great disappointment. In many ways it was a fabulous adaptation, but they didn't seem to understand what the story is about, with the result that the ending message is almost exactly wrong.)

The canonical example here, tying back to Sandman, is Lucifer. The TV show understood that the fundamental theme of the comic is the topic of Free Will, and they held onto that closely, while very deliberately changing everything else -- the TV show starts at the same place as the comic, but then diverges wildly in every respect, especially the nature of the title character. And much though I loved the comic, the show is better: the characters are more engaging, the story (much though it wanders) is more coherent, and it's just plain more fun.

I'm a couple of episodes into Sandman so far, and generally enjoying it but reserving judgement. It's a fine adaptation, but a little bit ponderous -- hopefully it loosens up a little as it goes...

[andrewducker]

I really must get around to the Lucifer TV series some time. I absolutely loved Mike Carey's comic, but am not at all precious about the TV series going off in a very different direction.

I feel similarly about Watchmen as you do about V for Vendetta. Looks amazing, message is wrong.

[jducoeur]

I really must get around to the Lucifer TV series some time. I absolutely loved Mike Carey's comic, but am not at all precious about the TV series going off in a very different direction.

Okay, good -- simply the fact that it is, at its heart, a love story tells you how different the interpretation of the character is, and that's why it works so well. The Lucifer of the comic is basically a force of nature, largely unyielding, unchanging, and a tad unsympathetic, so the story mostly had to be told with others as the viewpoint characters. The show's Lucifer is very much the co-lead, and he has a lot of arc over the course of it. Indeed, in general it is the story about a lot of cosmic beings learning to be better people.

I feel similarly about Watchmen as you do about V for Vendetta. Looks amazing, message is wrong.

The movie, absolutely. The sequel TV series, OTOH, I thought was a loving and brilliant homage to the comic -- very different story, but sharing more of the comic's DNA than the movie did, and IMO arguably better than the original.

[channelpenguin]

I recall I liked Sandman as a comic. I didn't like the series trailer at all. I'm not terribly tempted.

I liked the book "American Gods" but not so much the series. So the Gaiman hit-rate isn't looking so great ... except that the Good Omens series was GREAT... hmmm...

I loved Watchmen as a comic - and I thought the film was a pretty decent effort. V for Vendetta I didn't much like the film (it wasn't dreadful) , loved the comic. Sin City I didn't like either comic or the film (the 15-20 mins of it that I watched). Though my BF likes the film versions of both V for Vendetta AND Sin City.

I loved Tank Girl as a comic, as I recall not the film. Liked Judge Dredd as comic, did not like any film attempts (though again, the BF likes the most recent film).

It seems mixed / personal?

[andrewducker]

I kinda enjoyed the first season of American Gods, but felt it was waaaay too padded. Good Omens kinda worked for me, but worked much better for many many other people.

It's definitely mixed/personal. It may be that an awful lot of people love Sandman and I don't. Or vice versa! I think I'd actually be happier with a TV series that loads of people enjoyed that wasn't for me - that way I'd know that I just prefer the comic version!

[skington]

Gaiman wasn't a showrunner for American Gods, but was for Good Omens, and is for Sandman, so maybe that's a point in his favour?

[simont]

What works in imagination may not work well when you see it

Mmmm. The classic phenomenon is that when a text-only book is adapted to TV, you had already formed your own mental images of the characters / locations / spaceships / whatever, and are disappointed when the ones on screen don't look like yours (unless they manage to be even cooler). And this is more or less unavoidable, because everyone will have formed different mental images, and the single visual representation in the TV version can't match everybody's.

But with a story that was already graphical, we'll all be starting from basically the same idea of what everything in it looks like. So at least we'll all agree on whether it's the same or not.

(On the other hand, since we know at least one character is going to look completely different, there will still be plenty of scope for debate over whether the different parts are better or worse...)

[andrewducker]

Yes, but we know the design won't be identical, and also that people fill in a lot of gaps. Also - I've already heard people complain about some of the accents, as they hadn't thought of Dream as being British :-)

Plus, should Dream look like the Marc Hempel version or the Kelley Jones version?

[simont]

As long as they don't deliberately dial down the quality of the visuals for the Kindly Ones segment, I won't be too unhappy :-)

Of course, another problem is that sometimes people miss things that are actually in the text. I remember somebody complaining about Good Omens that Aziraphale sounded camp. But the book said it in pretty much so many words!

[andrewducker]

Having only discovered this week that Nada is in The Wake, I'm open to discovering things I've missed in the text :-)

(Also, I love the art in The Kindly Ones)

[f4f3]

People took away the impression that he was "gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide" IIRC.

[f4f3]

The first place I start with adaptions is the reply given by (probably) James M Cain when asked if he wasn't angry about what Hollywood had done to his novels - apparently he pointed at his bookshelf and said "Hollywood has done nothing to my novels - there they are on the shelf, same as ever".

So I'll try to remember whenever something about the Sandman adaption annoys me that I still have the story there on my shelves. Absolutely, actually.

There are two movie adaptions of comics that I enjoyed totally, without finding enough small twinges to amount to a paid. The first Michael Keaton "Batman", the first Avengers movie (with the caveat that it wasn't a direct adaption, more a smooshing up of the Ultimate comics and existing MCU continuity). Both left me dancing out of the cinema with the feeling that they'd done it right. There are other comic book movies I've enjoyed more, but none that I thought were more faithful.

I am looking forward to Sandman (I have a link to watch the first episode early, on my laptop, but I don't think I"ll use it). I'll try to adopt, as far as I can, the inscription on Lady Constantine's grave, lifted from Mathew Prior by Mr Gaiman: “Be to her virtues very kind, Be to her faults a little blind.”

[calimac]

"The book is still on the shelf" is a non-answer that's useless to the point of offensiveness.

It doesn't matter where the book is, if the movie is in the head.

Testimonies by the dozen from people who say they can't read the book without thinking of the movie.

People who can't remember which things are in which, and write about the book while including things that are only in the movie. (Anybody who says that Oz in the book is only a dream, e.g.)

That's not even counting occasions when the book is removed from the bookstore shelves and replaced with a novelization of the movie.

[mellowtigger]

I quite enjoyed the 3 seasons of American Gods. (I wish, though, they had managed to keep the same actors and staff throughout for consistency. And that they properly closed off the story instead of merely being canceled.) I suspect Sandman will be good too.

[radiantfracture]

Oo, this is a great idea -- if I may emulate your idea, I think I'll also post my Sandman history, preparatory to Friday.

[andrewducker]

I'll look forward to reading that!

Good luck getting it done in the couple of hours we have left of Thursday!

[mme_n_b]

I can't wait for Sandman because I never read the comics. I read every book by Gaiman multiple times in different editions, but comics? Too difficult for me. I read the Norse Myths and the Ballads and the Stardust graphic novel but that's as much graphic as I can take. By every sign I know Sandman should be a thing I'd love and the way it's written is just Chaucer to me, which is very frustrating. I'm going to binge out for all those years I kept trying to read it and just. could. not.

[andrewducker]

I hope this works for you then!

(And if not I believe the Audible version is really good)

[mme_n_b]

Thank you :)

[i_kender]

Well, I share your deep love and fannishness for the original material (although I think I started a little later than 1990 by a year or three, and caught up) but not your trepidation. Everything I've seen and heard so far sounds promising. It may well be a bit different, yes... any adaptation from one medium to another has to be, slavish adaptations don't usually work well... but I'm excited and hopeful that it will be good, compelling, and watchable.

I actually went along to peek at the premiere crowds on Wednesday and stood outside the BFI to catch glimpses (and photos) of the cast and crew.

Also, early reviews are dropping already. Here's the Guardian's: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/aug/05/the-sandman-review-neil-gaiman-has-created-2022s-single-greatest-hour-of-tv-drama

[andrewducker]

It is all looking very positive.

But what if I don't like it?

[i_kender]

I mean, that's entirely possible. And nobody can say whether you like it or not, not even you.

I mean, for me... Good Omens adaptation? loved it. Stardust film? huge fan. American Gods? loathed it with a fiery passion and constantly bemoan how it ruined an excellent book... you can never tell!

If you don't like it, don't force yourself to keep watching it, is my advice... and instead go back and do a re-read.

[i_kender]

Or buy fancy new editions like some of the Complete/Annotated/Absolute/Essential/whatever they're calling them these days versions...

[andrewducker]

I have the Absolute editions and did a re-read about two years ago :-)

[i_kender]

Have you read all the extra bits? Endless Nights, Dream Hunters, Overture? (I really liked Overture actually, v. nice coda)

[andrewducker]

Yup! And the Death miniserieses. And Lucifer (which I loved to bits).

[andrewducker]

I thought Good Omens was okay. Stardust I liked bits of, but wasn't mad about. American Gods, liked but thought it was too padded out, and didn't bother with season 2.