(no subject)

[andrewducker]

Bizarre Game Targets Women.

I'm not at all sure what to think here.

Comments

[heron61.livejournal.com]

OTOH, I do:

1) That's pretty darn sick.

2) While pornography provably has not connection to violence against women and the link between real-life violence and violent media and video games is at best shaky, I'm guessing the link between shooting helpless people for fun and shooting them for real is somewhat stronger.

I have no objections to ordinary paintball games where people effectively hunt each other, but hunting people like animals seems likely to encourage very bad things.

I see nothing positive here and would love to find some reasonable way to outlaw this horror. However, that may be unnecessary - give this vileness the publicity it deserves and they will get enough picketing, hate mail and similar problems that it will hopefully shut it down.

[andrewducker]

I'd definitely agree that it's sick.

But considering that all the people involved are there voluntarily, I can't see any way of outlawing it without being so specific as to be pointless.

After all, a variant which still involved the unarmed person fleeing, but didn't involve naked women wouldn't be a problem at all. And generalyl speaking I'm not anti the presence of naked women pretty much anywhere.

So if people choose to involve themselves in this, who am I to tell them to stop?

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree that there isn't a good enough reason to make it illegal. In some ways I can thank the organisers for providing yet another clear way of sorting out a group of people I won't go within ten feet of.

For me, however, it is clear that there's a link between the extent to which society endorses and fetishises violence against women and the extent to which women experience harassment and violence. So this is worrying in a huge way. However, the legal point is that people are still absolutely responsible for when they cross that line, and the legal sanctions should come in the very moment that they do. Education, on the other hand, should come in well before they cross the line, as should boycotting and lobbying. I'd have nothing, socially, commercially or organisationally, to do with anyone who practiced or endorsed this.

[andrewducker]

I'd certainly feel much the same way - I'd be very much put off anyone who had anything to do with this.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

I can think of a perfectly straightforward law that would, at minimum, cut down on the number of accidents: make it illegal for anyone to play paintball without wearing protective clothing. Anyone who organises a game in which some participants don't get to wear coveralls gets fined heavily: similiar but lesser fines to anyone who fired a paintball at someone who wasn't wearing protective clothing. Double the fines if anyone gets shot at above the chest.

Other than that, it's basically a form of prostitution - just a bit more public and involving a stranger form of sexual satisfaction. The safety hazards are considerable as it currently stands, and ought to be prevented. If making the "game" safer for the women involved makes it less fun for the men doing the shooting, that's just too bad.

[andrewducker]

You're completely correct.

At a minimum there ought to be requirements for safety glasses, and I can certainly see a case for general body coverigngs.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Except... if this is about sex, then I supported the Spanner defendents' rights to inflict physical harm on each other with consent. So, if the women are consenting to be bruised with paint gun pellets, then shouldn't they be allowed to? They clearly need to be better informed than that article showed them to be, but if they accepted the risk, then I can see the Spanner parallels.

[guyinahat.livejournal.com]

Except being hit in the eye with a paintball gun will almost definitely lead to losing it. The way a paintball fragments, a hit on the bridge of the nose could destroy both eyes. I've been knocked out from a paintball round before, and that was while wearing protective gear.
To be honest I'm surprised this isn't already illegal as reckless endangerment of employees.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Furthermore, from the article, the organisers recognise that there's a safety hazard, but it seems aren't prepared to do anything serious about it because the punters don't want it to happen. It is not made clear if it has been explained to the women involved that the risks include losing both eyes. It doesn't count as "consensual", in my view, unless the participant who's taking the risks knows what the risks are.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

The moral difference between this and the Spanner case, though, is that the people who were (mildly) injured in the Spanner case were equal participants. I wouldn't be so squicked by this if the women were getting off on being hunted by paintball. (Well, I would be kind of squicked in a different way. But if they were getting off on it, I'd acknowledge their right to do so.) But from the article they seem to be just in it for the money - 1000 dollars if they lose, 2500 if they win.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

But considering that all the people involved are there voluntarily, I can't see any way of outlawing it without being so specific as to be pointless.

Agreed

After all, a variant which still involved the unarmed person fleeing, but didn't involve naked women wouldn't be a problem at all.

I disagree, it wouldn't squick me as much, but I still think it is a bad and potentially dangerous activity. I'd like to see studies done about such games, if someone can find a strong causative link between such games and actual violence then that's really all I need to see to shut them down.

[andrewducker]

but I still think it is a bad and potentially dangerous activity

I've played similar games, albeit with lasertag, not paintball, where one person was designated "runner" and others had to catch him. We took it in turns to be runner, because it was less fun, but I can't say that it caused us any long-term harm that I can see.

I'm fairly sure there are variants of Quake-like games that use this kind of ruleset as well.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Ouch! is what I think. Getting hit with a paintball really bloody hurts, and bruises even with clothes on.

It's distasteful, but not more than that, I don't think. The girls are getting a pretty hefty fee. It's pretty dangerous doing without a helmet though - surely they could work some fetish type theme thing that had at least eye protection.

The kind of folks that can't tell fantasy from reality would be dangerous (or not) anyway.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

OTOH, I am.

It's repulsive.

[andrewducker]

Well, yes, I'm repulsed too, but then I'm vaguely repulsed by lots of things people do of their own free will.

I was initially repulsed, then not sure how I would legislate against it, then not sure if I should want it legislated against.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

I think a fair way of governing any type of human behaviour that implies or is implicit in allowing violence against individuals, is the tried and tested "If you can't take it, don't dish it out".

I'd happily welcome a law that forced the hunters to take shots as the hunted. Something that promotes balance and fairness.

Can you see the opposite ever happening, where women hunt naked men? Doubt it. This is the main problem I have with this. Anything that perpetuates the stereotype of men 'controlling' women, is wrong IMHO.

[protempore.livejournal.com]

On the otherhand, at 1000 to 2500 dollars per hunt, if there was one for men to strip down and evade fire I'd totally do it. Like the clothed chick said, "It's good money."

What's this say about humankind? Not much good . . . BUT I'm always up for capitalizing of the less moral. Yes, yes I am.

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I don't really find it particularly repulsive. Weird, maybe, but not repulsive. Though I think it would be more fair if bucks were allowed to be hunted, as well as "Bambies".

I also am not sure that there would be any link between this kind of game, and real violence. Somehow, I just can't see men saying: "Boy, this is fun with a paint gun, how much more fun would it be with a real gun?!?!!"

I guess there have been studies about it, but it seems to make sense to me that some people would have aggressive tendencies lessened by having other forms of expression, like sports, video games, or even half-naked-paintball. I know if I am really stressed and angry, a shoot-em-up can be pretty soothing.

This might not be the case for real wackos, who aren't happy with just a couple of murders, but for some borderline cases, might such strangeness not be a "safe" outlet for otherwise dangerous aggression?

[andrewducker]

My conclusion was pretty much that people should eb allowed to do this (although I'd like glasses to be mandatory) but that I wouldn't want to associate with the people that did want to do it.

Probably.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

Yup, I'm with that. With proper eye protection, it's just some weirdo thing in which I have no interest.

[thepaintedone.livejournal.com]

I think if someone was mentaly screwed up enough to go down the path of using a real gun rather than a paintball gun, they wouldnt want to act out thier fantasy in such a public and sterile way anyhow. I think this will just attract generic scum who want to do unpleasant things to naked women (I don't think any serious S&M people would want to go near this). I'm fairly sure the strip clubs are full of guys like this, and as long as they dont cross the line and the women volunteer I don't have a huge problem with it being legal. I personaly find it pretty horrid though, but I find plenty of legal things horrid and that isnt a good enough reason to outlaw them.

Eye protection is a must though, even if its just goggles for fucks sake. A nasty bruise is one thing, replacing your eyeball with a pellet is a really bad way to spend the weekend.

Wow

[ekatarina.livejournal.com]

Grotesque.

I must admit I was misled by the headline. I thought it was a game that was being marketed at women.

That being said, I play a spot with personal risk, I know that. However, it is not one sided, it is far less likely to result in loss of life and or limb.

I'm not sure what can be said about this. What is the source of the big gaping hole in the sole of the men who would want to do this? What would change if the "targets" were co-ed and dressed?

Katja

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I'm very pleased to discover that it looks like the game is a hoax. I'm also impressed that major news networks got hoaxed. This sort of carelessness yet again reminds me that there is no reason to assume that news from them is any more reliable than news from any of the smaller and allegedly less reputable on-line news sources.

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Snope.com thinks there's a fair chance it's a hoax (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bambi.asp).

[andrewducker]

Yeah, I was holding off on reporting until they made their minds up.

Oh, and the shark in the shark/surfer photo? It's a dolphin - you can tell by the tail, apparently :->

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the shark in the shark/surfer photo? It's a dolphin - you can tell by the tail, apparently :->

Yes, I saw that too. I wasn't planning to report on it, I thought I'd leave you the fun....

[andrewducker]

Stephen (Allorin) did it. which was nice, because I had no idea.