"Fantasy" versus "Science Fiction"

[andrewducker]

Up-front - I want to make it clear that I'm talking about _my_ working definitions. Your working definitions are quite possible different. For further discussion of the topic see large swathes of the internet, or this post here which tries to nail things down a lot more. We gain our understandings of most genre definitions through induction - we experience lots of stuff that people call "Fantasy" and lots of stuff that people call "Science Fiction" and we form internal models based on those experiences, which we then try to codify through nice simple rules. There are thus no _right_ definitions, although there are many wrong ones.

Having got that out the way, my definition revolves around "magic". If the method of action for the "cool stuff" that the characters can do, that people in the real world cannot, is magic then the story is fantasy. If the method of action is based on technological advances then it's science fiction. So, how to define magic?

"Magic" implies that the universe is sentient - it works for its users by starting with effects and then working its way back to causes. This means that a magic user can say "Give me a fireball" (or whatever cod-latin they use instead) and the magic will deal with all of that molecular excitation necessary to produce a flame effect, and then guide it through some means to its target without the magic user having to worry about the details of how it does so. Whereas in Science Fiction you have to start with the heating things up bit, and then work out how to use it to create a big sphere of plasma contained in force fields that then guide it to its target. This is also how real life works - we start with a tool that can do something (create localised heat) and then use it to convert some handy bread into toast - we don't simply demand toast and then let the magic work out how to create it.

Of course, technology smart enough to be sentient can pretend to be magic (and there are various fictional worlds where the "magic" turns out to be very high level tech*), and there are lots of grey areas (psychic powers were traditionally science fiction, since people believed there was a scientific basis for them, and The Force is somewhere a bit further along the same continuum towards magic). But 99% of the time this rule (Do the characters command "ends" or "means") works perfectly well for differentiating the two genres.

Context being this conversation on genre from earlier today.


*In Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality Ng bar cbvag Uneel gurbevfrf ba gur fbhepr bs zntvp, naq frrzf gb or jbexvat gbjneqf gur vqrn bs napvrag ybfg NV grpu gung vf pbzznaqrq hfvat bofpher cuenfrf. (http://www.rot13.com/ to unencrypt that.)

Comments

[gominokouhai]

Your definition neglects consideration of Clarke's Third Law.

[andrewducker]

First chunk of paragraph 4.

[gominokouhai]

Oh yes, sorry. There's still an issue though, in that, as the Doctor once said to Ace: the reverse is also true. The old 90s World of Darkness games had mages, who could rewrite the fabric of reality according to their whims, and sorcerors, who couldn't do any such thing but had access to certain specific rites and rotes, without necessarily knowing what they were doing (or even that the fabric of reality could theoretically be rewritten according to etc). Likewise we have many people in real life who can drive a car but have no clue whatsoever about the complex metallurgy and chemistry and road traffic management required to allow cars to be operable. The concept of cars might as well be magic.

> a magic user can say "Give me a fireball" (or whatever cod-latin they use instead) and the magic will deal with [it]

Neglects the possibility of summoning rites. A user can ask a demon, or an Elder God, to produce a fireball on their behalf. All the user need do is communicate with the entity (or, in Bob Howard's case, get a perl script to do it for him). The user is simply interacting with a technology and/or service. The fact that demons or elder gods exist is still preposterous. So, would this be a magical world or not?

I think the lines are blurred a little more than you suggest, that's all.

[andrewducker]

Oh yes, it doesn't work all the time. I find it does mostly, though.

Some people would argue that Lovecraft was writing Science Fiction (albeit, of the horrifying variety). That he was horrified by the natural world, and the vast depths of space, and attempted to get across the feelings that out there might be horrifying intelligences who had previously ruled our world. And could eat d4 adventurers per round.

[gominokouhai]

Exactly---it's a rational universe, but elder gods are still magic.