Texting While Walking Banned in New Jersey Town

Date: 2012-05-15 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Hm. Well, in theory it should appease drivers who felt unfairly singled out as "not allowed to text".

If there's a serious problem, there's worse things to do than exert a bit of local government pressure. But I'm doubtful it's that serious: they seem to conflate "annoying" with "dangerous": is everyone who texts while walking equally likely to step out onto the street without looking?
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Huh. I'd never heard of the all souls entrance exams :)

Should wealth be inheritable?

Huh. I've never been sure: on the one hand, it's so much part of life to want to provide for our children, it seems difficult to get rid of that. And impractical: how do you stop people giving gifts? On the other hand, wouldn't it be fairer if it wasn't?

Maybe the land value tax has a point here, that if you accumulate stuff, you're entitled to hand it on, but not just to sit on the value without enhancing it. But I'm not sure, it feels like maybe family businesses and personal houses _should_ be passed on? But that if someone owns a vast tract land that gets a big city built on it, they shouldn't just be able to keep on owning it for hundreds of years? I don't know.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Ooh, go public. Though I always feel conflicted that most people seem to want elected lords -- I think wanting lords reform is a good thing, but I'm scared of jumping to the "second least bad" option, and don't know why more people aren't willing to consider alternatives.

I quite like the idea I saw on your link log that we admit that MPs are not really that geographical any more, and let them be elected by PR, but then have regional representatives in the lords. That way the commons can do its best to represent widespread opinion, but the lords can (hopefully) elect more diverse people with common sense. Maybe.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
True, but that feels like saying "we don't know, so we'll just take the average of the two positions". I agree it's worked more-or-less well, but I'm not sure it's conceptually right :)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Funnily enough, I commonly walk while reading (although a lot less now I cycle a lot), and I've only:

* Once walked into a lamppost (not hard, but I think I made contact with my arms before stopping), which was when I was texting
* Once came close to bumping into someone while reading -- when almsot I walked into someone else walking the opposite way reading :) Fortunately someone I knew fairly well :)

I think texting may actually take more concentration than reading (or at least, I can't read anything too complicated or I can't keep track of my place on the page) because it needs your hands to do things as well as your eyes to look at things.

But also, I'm not sure it's a sufficient problem that fining the victims will make things better...

Date: 2012-05-15 12:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] momentsmusicaux.livejournal.com
The switch to STV articles says "Now we know that in Edinburgh and Glasgow every single vote was hard fought."... but most of us here in Edi saw squat all campaigning!

Google Shuts Down Another Conservative Blog

Date: 2012-05-15 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Hm. Even if google have a good reason, even if the service is free (?), it's still shitty to censor it without any transparancy.

But also, I don't really like his stance that there's a cut off point where people accused of crimes sufficiently bad should be executed without a fair trial. The failure modes seem sort of obvious...
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Stepping out into the street without looking is ... dangerous to *me*. I fundamentally disapprove of people making laws to prevent me from doing things that are dangerous to me (leaving aside the question of whether the danger exists, I believe this even if the danger is clear and extreme).

Unless they can show a clear source of danger to *others* I think this is a very silly law.
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Stepping out into the street is undoubtedly dangerous to you but is also dangerous to the car driver who may have to take avoiding action or worse still hit you. The danger may be psychological rather than physical but I imagine there are significant psychological consequences for many drivers who (even through no fault of their own) run down or kill a pedestrian.
fanf: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fanf
This is an excellent example of blaming the victim. I bet it will do nothing to reduce the number of pedestrians killed by cars.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I don't know. I think people should generally have a right to self-determination, and definitely have the freedom if someone (even if it seems odd to other people) is what they really want, but for some things, eg. not smoking, or not wearing seatbelts, I expect the vast majority of people not to have made a positive decision to get cancer or head trauma, but just to have not really thought it through, and bullying them into doing so may be both effective, and closer to what they'd really benefit from the most in the long term. I agree that's a nasty can of worms and we should be very, very careful before proposing something for people's own good, because it's very common for it to be an excuse to victim-blame, but I'm not sure it's correct to say we should NEVER do that.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
A slightly more commonly accepted example of denying people the right to self-determination is that I think "just taxing everyone and providing health care, transport infrastructure, etc, is better than taking the ultra-libertarian approach of letting people opt-in to a road-building and health-care fund and shooting anyone who doesn't pay and then tries to freeload later when they're starving"

Date: 2012-05-15 01:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] andlosers.livejournal.com
I honestly don't know why I'd never heard of the All Souls entrance exams either, but those questions are amazing. The idea of taking that exam, including the fifth paper, makes me genuinely gleeful - and a little bit sad that I never will.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'd not realised until I got to the last word that victim blaming was exactly what it was.

I don't know where the law really came from: is it a populist measure after several people were killed? are people annoyed by being bumped into all the time? or do they simply want more money in fines?
From: [identity profile] alitheapipkin.livejournal.com
The only person I have ever witnessed walking into a lamp post was neither reading nor texting; he was just having a very animated discussion. It was very funny for us but he hit it so hard, it shook so rather painful for him!
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Pedestrians are dopey, well known fact (pedestrians are not generally required to NOT be dopey). Some of them are txting, some of them are drunk, or stoned, or blind/deaf and can't see/hear the cars, some of them trip and fall into the road, or faint, or have a fit, or a heart attack, some of them just fail to look.

Drivers should NEVER assume that pedestrians are going to stay safely on the pavement. As a motorist it is *your responsibility* not to hit people or property with your car; and I have approximately zero sympathy for motorists who find this responsibility psychologically taxing.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Oh yes, I'd forgotten that. I had the impression the people were objecting to other people walking into them when they were walking. But it could just be "Eek! Icky low-class pedestrian! Get it away from me!"...
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Drivers have a responsibility to drive safely and yes looking out for unexpected hazards such as pedestrians is part of that. But to suggest that all the responsibility lies with the driver of a car is just ridiculous. Pedestrians have to take some responsibility for their actions as well.

Date: 2012-05-15 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
Yeah - I don't think I saw a single canvasser and I only got leaflets from about half of the candidates standing.

Perhaps, in reality, my ward was a safe seat. 4 seats, with support spread pretty evenly across the mainstream parties. So one from each of the 5 parties represented in Holyrood less one. Normally, it would be a key marginal but I wonder if this time round everyone knew the Lib Dems would finish in 5th place so no one had to try.
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Yes, and if I was hit by a car whilst stepping into the road without looking I'd accept some of the responsibility for that; but not all of it.

Date: 2012-05-15 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
Thanks for the link about management-- I've been hearing about the topic for years, but putting it as managers have no connection to the organization is the clearest phrasing I've seen.
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
Having personally witnessed, last week no less, someone stopping to answer a text message in the middle of a busy intersection I am reluctant to dismiss bylaws banning "texting while walking" out of hand.

-- Steve certainly won't underestimate the power of human stupidity.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
The article was singularly unclear what was actually banned. Was it ANY texting while walking? Texting while walking on public land? Texting while walking across the road?

Banning texting while walking across the road _would_ make sense, if they care. (As long as it IS a road, it's possible it should all be pedestrainised, but that's a different question, and probably not going to happen.)

I also notice that this decision came from the police chief, not any sort of local government. Does that mean the police cheif has the power to enact new laws? Or does the anti-jaywalking[1] ordanance already prohibit this sort of dangerous street wandering in theory, and cheif has decided to enforce it?

[1] When I was young, some film made a reference to someone being arrested for jaywalking in the street, and I asked my parents what it was, and they said they thought it meant "being black". Only later did I find out what it really was :)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
The laws of physics say otherwise; even if a driver is perfectly aware and driving the legal limit, it takes some distance to come to a halt. If a pedestrian crosses without looking within that distance (particularly if it's from between two Dino Burners SUVs, so there are no cues for the driver to pick up) then there's no chance for the driver to avoid a collision.

Pedestrians need to be responsible as well as drivers.

-- Steve thinks the dishonours are fairly evenly split between the two in his personal experience.
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
I'm all for suggesting to people that dangerous things are dangerous (WHERE THIS IS TRUE) and giving helpful advice; I'm not sure I favour "sin taxes" (I favour taxes *overall*, as a benefit to society-as-a-whole not to every citizen individually).

I actually object to seatbelt legislation.
From: [identity profile] lpetrazickis.livejournal.com
If they've stopped in the middle of the street to text, then they are clearly not texting and walking.^-^

Lords Reform and Gay Marriage

Date: 2012-05-15 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I’m becoming a bit narked with the Lords Reform / gay marriage / insert your favourite cheap improvement to civic Britain isn’t a priority and therefore we shouldn’t deal with it until after the economy is fixed argument.

Firstly, basically the person saying this has just admited they are crap at their job. If the person saying this is genuinely unable to deal with Lords Reform in the same year as doing some stuff to the economy then they are too incompetent to be doing the job I’m paying them for and therefore my “insert favourite cheap improvement to civic Britain” becomes a right of recall to be escalated to a right to defenestration.

Secondly, if Lords Reform / gay marriage / insert your favourite cheap improvement to civic Britain isn’t a priorty for the politicians and would distract from fixing the economy then they should concede. It’s a priority for me. So they should give in, give me what I want. I’ll be happy. They won’t be suffering because, you know what, it’s not a priorty for them. If they give in now and sort out Lords Reform and gay marriage I’ll shut up and get on with helping them fix the economy. I have some plans for that. They mainly involve not starting from here.

Date: 2012-05-15 03:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theweaselking.livejournal.com
Especially since his reasoning for wanting summary execution is a confession that came after *literally years* of torture.

I'm pretty sure he would have confessed to the Kennedy assassination, and to stealing the Lindbergh baby, and to anything else his captors suggested they might want him to confess to, too. You can't take the confession of someone who has been tortured as ANYTHING other than "something he said to make the pain stop"

That being said, my bet on the reason for deletion isn't "censorship", it's "dude had a stupid password that he used everywhere, someone guessed it, and his blog made a billion spam comments in a few hours". Which is to say, "spam", which is why Google said they were cutting it off. Google's "no customer service" policy is idiotic, but I'll still bet on their service being tone-deaf and automated before betting on it doing something censorous.

Date: 2012-05-15 04:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
it's "dude had a stupid password that he used everywhere, someone guessed it, and his blog made a billion spam comments in a few hours"

Good point, that does seem quite likely now you point it out.

Google's "no customer service" policy is idiotic

I don't know what I would do though. It's obviously a problem when someone has a real problem with the service and can't talk to anyone about it. (Even if it's free, some faults are sufficiently egregious you do want to fix them!) But google offer lots and lots of services for free, which they simply couldn't do if they had to field customer service requests. (I don't know if this particular service was free, if not he should have some recourse, but it's a problem with that sort of service either way.)

I'll still bet on their service being tone-deaf and automated before betting on it doing something censorous.

Well, I doubt they would (or would want to) deliberately censor opinions they don't like. But it's easy to censor people by accident without any malicious intent (eg. anyone who can't use their "legal" name on google plus). It seems likely that wasn't the case this time, but it's a problem that happens with this sort of free or cheap service.

Date: 2012-05-15 04:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iainjcoleman.livejournal.com
Campaigning is a labour-intensive volunteer activity.

This year's local elections in Edinburgh differed from previous local elections in two important respects:

1. Lamppost signs are no longer permitted. This meant that the main visible sign of campaigning was no longer around, and indeed many people didn't even realise there was an election on until late in the day.

2. There were no parliamentary elections on the same day. In parliamentary elections, political parties are entitled to a freepost delivery to each voter. This means that voters should get some kind of literature from all the parties even in non-target areas. Also, the amount of money that can be spent in the campaign is higher, which gives parties more leeway to supplement their own activists' deliveries with paid leafleting by delivery companies.

Date: 2012-05-15 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anton-p-nym.livejournal.com
I would also bet that Breitbart's mile-wide persecution complex is affecting his perception of the events.

-- Steve's ancient laptop choked on loading the linked site... which argues that his laptop has reasonably good taste.
From: [identity profile] pigwotflies.livejournal.com
Yeah, I can fairly easily read while walking, but texting takes more concentration. Maybe it's the combination of cognitive and motor skills.

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