Obligations and Responsibilities

[andrewducker]

Kimberly A responsed to a previous post saying:

I don't think that someone else's potential happiness makes anyone else obligated to do anything for them.

and I think she's very right.

One of the changes between childhood and adulthood is that you stop having rules and obligations enforced upon you. Children are very morally absolutist. They know what right and wrong are, commandments handed down from on high. They have obligations they must carry out.

Adults don't have that - adults have responsibility - the knowledge that whatever your actions, you are responsible for their effects on other people. Adults don't tell the truth because "Lying is a sin", they tell the truth because they believe the consequences for lying are worse than the consequences for telling the truth. An adult doesn't keep their word because to fail to do so would be 'naughty', but because they recognise that failing to keep your word means that people trust you less and the trust of your associates is valuable to them. An adult world is grey and murky and full of different shades of morality because in the end, adults realise that they're the ones who makes the choices and they're the ones who have to live with the consequences.

And no, I don't think that there are nearly enough adults in the world.

Comments

[spaj.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

I've often pointed out I'm interested in what it would be like to kill someone.

After careful consideration, the reason I don't pursue this interest isn't that I think it's wrong. It's because I would have to take responsibility for my actions. Because society views my actions as wrong, and I value my place in society, because of the obvious benefits.

Well said that ducker

Adam

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

I don't ever recall being a 'child' then.

I've never thought right and wrong were anything other than what I thought was.

Some things made my mum/dad/teacher angry and when they were angry at me, it was not fun for me, or if I did do certain things, people were nice to me, but that was really all. It curbed my behaviour (somewhat) but never replaced my own judgement/desires etc.

The again I am, and always have been (as fr as I can recall), monumentally egotist and selfish.

I think you have it wrong, children are intially trained as you do am animal, but reward and/or punishment. Later you get explanations, when you have enough vocablualry and self-awareness to take them in and to be manipulated verbally. Any any case it all plays on your emotions to try to get you to do what other people want you to.

I still refuse to be trained in to behaving the way someone else wants me to. Pay attention, people (aprticularly firends and partners) try to do this all the time. You probably do it yourself.

I do it. My short temper, impatience and intolerance of stupidity are attempts to train everybody else to either be useful or to leave me alone. I have thought about it too, long long ago (early teens?) I said that I wanted to be so simple and transparent (emotionally) that if someone upset me, I wouldn't have to bother to work out whether they meant it or not - they did (so I could be angry/happy at them as appropriate and have good, logical reason to be so.)

People sometimes just think I'm rude or oblivious to social nuances - I just think people are overly subtle for no good reason (plus they are very illogical and inconsistent). I can't be arsed to learn that game, particu;arly as it;s borign and they chaneg the 'rules' all the time to suit themselves. At least I make no bones about it!

[andrewducker]

I think you have it wrong, children are intially trained as you do am animal, but reward and/or punishment.

Leaving to one side your appalling lack of grammar and spelling (more coffee!!!!), I have to disagree. Most of the child developmental psychology stuff I've read shows that children start off believing that things _are_ X or Y. That girls behave in this way and boys behave in that way and that these things are intrinisc to the ways of the universe. It's only much later on that they realise that all of these things are interpretations (and many people never realise at all). They're intrinsically fascistic in their approach to the universe.

I managed to sustain this longer than most people, as my parents were reasonable and the interpretations they gave generally matched the world very well. You were forced out of it quickly by the fact that your parents/teachers gave explanations that quite obviously didn't match up to the real world.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

My spelling and grammar are fine (I meant 'an' and 'by'). My problem is that I cannot type :-) I don't drink coffee.

I don't recall ever being like that. (though I may have been when very very young, 2-3 as I have few memories of that time). I do recall constantly wanting to know 'why' when other people came out with such things, and not obeying unless it also seemed like a good idea to me. I was a very very 'wilful' child and I haven't really changed (though I may have mellowed a wee bit). I didn't really play with other kids much, certainly I spent just about all of my break times at school on my own (barring my doomed teenage efforts to 'fit in', but that's not play).

I suppose that my philosophy was pretty much "Rules are for other people" and it worked/works well for most things in life. If I can't get round one then I get most upset if the person/people in charge let anybody else get round it - that isn't fair!!! Actually if it's something like "you can't come in cos you aren't pretty enough" then that's just annoying but not unfair. If they waffle round it and don't voice their actual objection it is very very annoying indeed.