(no subject)

[andrewducker]

Just in case you thought you had, y'know, any kind of free will:

Pill changes women's taste in men

I'd like to see more tests done here - they may, after all, be highlighting differences between those people who are more likely/less likely to take the pill rather than people affected by the pill. Still, interesting result.

Comments

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see more tests done here - they may, after all, be highlighting differences between those people who are more likely/less likely to take the pill rather than people affected by the pill.

I'd be almost willing to guarantee that this or something similar is the reason for this result. I've read similar studies (not on this specific topic) and the level of sloppy research is truly amazing.

[andrewducker]

Well, I'm perfectly willing to accept that different chemicals have an affect on brain function and mood, and both testosterone and oesterogen have been shown to do this.

But that doesn't mean much in this particular case. I see this as an indication that something may be up and more investigation is worthwhile (like a double blind study)

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Definitions of what are considered to be masculine and feminine men are purely cultural, and the only way studies like this make sense is if such classifications were in some way innate and fixed in humanity. Human culture and behavior is exceedingly variable (what else to you expect an anthropologist to say :) and sociobiology-based studies like this ignore that fact and by doing so render themselves useless and incorrect.

[andrewducker]

Definitions of what are considered to be masculine and feminine men are purely cultural

I pretty much disagree with this. I'd go for somewhat cultural, but that's as far as I'm happy to be pushed.

Human culture and behavior is exceedingly variable (what else to you expect an anthropologist to say :) and sociobiology-based studies like this ignore that fact and by doing so render themselves useless and incorrect.

And that too, because of the first bit. Yes, they are variable, but I believe that some bits are less variable than others. Studies of behaviour versus testosterone levels, for instance, have consistently shown that higher testosterone levels equate to a higher tendency towards violence and aggression.

I'm certainly not willing to discount a study on the basis of a BBC report on it - I'd want to read the study itself and see what the actual methods used were.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Studies of behaviour versus testosterone levels, for instance, have consistently shown that higher testosterone levels equate to a higher tendency towards violence and aggression.

Actually not from what I've seen, the only clear cases are for people taking steroids. Given that most steroids are derived from horses and not humans and are taken in doses about 20x higher than any normal human (which is why they are so lethal) behavioral abnormalities are unsurprising. From what I've read, higher testosterone correlations and much like the false correlations found with XYY males, results that were either not reproducible or which ended up being traceable to other causes.

Take a look at Anne Fausto-Sterling's excellent book Sexing the Body for interesting discussions of this and similar issues. She's both a biology professor who has taken a far more critical look at these issues than most people.

[andrewducker]

The instance I remember most clearly was looking at the different behaviour patterns of children who had unusual levels of testosterone - the girls who had high levels insisted on violent play, the boys with low levels tended towards more social, less violent play. The programme (part of a BBC science series about human development) was on people who tried to raise their children in unusual ways.

But cheers for the reference, I'll add it to the reading list.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but usually there's a reason why people secrete different amounts of different hormones, so, again, if you're a girl with a brain that lends you to produce more testosterone, perhaps there's a parallel, rather that causal, link with aggression? Or, indeed, the fact that being a girl with high testosterone levels can make your appearance unorthodox, maybe you'd just be really pissed off about the teasing.

It's par for the course, naturally, that there are no women in the study who don't have a taste in men at all...

Ready for an overshare, though? I kind of buy the results, in that I tend to fancy men more (like, some rather than none) at times of the month that I could get pregnant. That could, definitely, be a psychological effect, but it's interesting, and not unique to me...

[andrewducker]

I've seen reports of similar studies before that showed that taste in men varied according to time in the menstrual cycle affecting hormone levels.

And I don't think testosterone levels are affected by the brain. The cases they looked at were genetic in nature - there's a "switch" which causes unusually high testosterone levels.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

There have been studies done that seem to show that the same</> women prefer faces with a squarer jaw and more prominent brow ridges, less chubby cheeks etc. at certain points in their menstrual cycle (I can't recall which point).

I do agree with your point on the experiment set up. What you need to do is take random women, test them, put half on hormones withotu tellign them and then test them again, but of course you can't really do that ethically.

[kashandara.livejournal.com]

I must be some kind of freak then. Been on the pill for going on 12 years and I'd still take Legolas over Aragorn any day...

Erm... that last bit came out wrong I think.

[andrewducker]

Well, Nick's about as manly as they get :->

And Legolas is still strong jawed, tall and classically handsome. He's just blonde with it...

Re:

[kashandara.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it's the character, not Orlando Bloom I find attractive, and the character is a lot more feminine, both in terms of make up and behaviour, than Mr Bloom.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

My taste for "pretty boys" seems to almost totally faded with age (except the guy who does MTV's film reviews, he is cute). I definitely prefer a more 'masculine' look these days than I did ten years ago.

People have been shown to prefer the smell of people that have the least immune system factors in common with them (This tends to make healther babies).

I recall that the Pill etc can alter your sense of smell such that this is no longer always the case.