Rambling thoughts about the objectification of women

[andrewducker]

People complain that men treat women like things, not people.

People _are_ things. I happen to get an emotional response to the wellbeing/happiness of people-things more than I do to sofa-things or table-things. My feelings about sex are, in fact, largely unconnected to my feelings about people. Or rather, they do connect, in my thought processes, but the urges aren't intrisically bound up with each other - they layer on top of each other and spark from each other rather than being intrinsically unified.

When I see a sexy woman in a club (say) my instant response is largely an instant response to physical appearance (including mannerisms, obviously) but there's always part of me that remembers that these are people, with feelings.

And so I can look at a woman and thinkfeel "Gosh, I'd like to have sex with that body." without any concept of her as a person. But that's pure fantasy-land, because I'm also aware that being in proximity to them for any length of time will cause me to form largely orthagonal feelings to do with their personality. Which can make people who were originally sexy become decidedly not, and cause people that didn't grab on first sight to flower.

I think that the problem with most of the people that cause trouble with thoughtless sexism is that the two strands never connect at all. Many people never care about the feelings of anyone outside of their direct/close friends, and so the feelings of random pretty women never bother them at all. How, exactly, to inspire people to raised levels of empathy is a question I'd love to see discussed in more detail.

(thanks to snapesbabe who started the discussion (this is a largely expanded version of a comment on her journal) - and congrats to her and matgb who just got engaged)

Comments

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

You have rectangular feelings about people? Oh nos! I'm rhomboid myself :-)

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Perhaps the disconnect is a protective mechanism to prevent the formation of too many emotional attachments. Such things are destabilising to existing relationships ins a way that the casual non-emotional sex is not. (and our propensity for strong pair bonds has its obvious evolutionary uses).

Imagine what might happen if you really DID empathise with every pretty woman/man you saw as well as lust after them?

[andrewducker]

You wouldn't need to empathise much - just enough to stop people being groped...

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

hmmm, you know, I never thought of that aspect. Probably cos it has never happened to me. I never notice anyone staring, either - but then I never look at men (or anyone) I don't know beyond the very quickest possible eyeblink unless I AM interested, or there is an unambiguous reason to do so (work, shops etc.)

It's not thought out or deliberate or conditioned for that reason (I don't think), it's just why would I?. I've decided in that first glance.

Or it could be that I am just butt-ugly :-)

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

My reaction to someone 'groping' me would entirely depend upon whether I find the 'culprit' attractive or not. If I did, I would be swiftly giving as good as I got...

Not saying I am at all typical (though thank goodness enough men seem to be like that or I'd never get laid).

[0olong.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've often thought that the problem is not objectification per se, but the failure to get beyond that when it comes to actually interacting with people. I can of see how an excess of the former might lead to the latter, but I'm not sure it's right to object to all forms of objectification just because of that. It's a bit like being against the consumption of alcohol in general because there are all these drunken wankers in the world: It's not exactly unreasonable; I couldn't call it irrational; but I am inclined to think of it as an excessively negative reaction to something that probably most people in this world enjoy, just because people take it to obnoxious extremes.

I for one like it when people appreciate me as a (moving) object. And I rather think that goes for most people, truth be told; for the most part, we enjoy being found aesthetically pleasing. And gods know there's no way I'm going to stop finding other people-as-things pleasing to the eye any time soon.