Something to keep you going while I finish packing my flat into boxes

[andrewducker]

[Poll #1016539]

Comments

[johanna-alice.livejournal.com]

I've only seen the first two films, but isn't it a bit obvious for them to be metaphors for Jews because Prof X and Magneto were shown at a concentration camp??

Whats possibly more relevant to the symbology is exactly which mutations end up on the side of 'good' or 'bad', Some Like Wolverine/Sabretooth have direct parallels. Others are almost directly opposed like Prof X's psychic mental abilities/Magneto's ability to alter the physical world mentally.

OMG I'm analysing a pulp comic!! Nevertheless...

[andrewducker]

Also, the creators of the X-Men were both Jewish.

If you haven't read "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay" then I highly recommend it. Fantastic book.

And actually you're analysing a pulp movie based on a comic book :->

[johanna-alice.livejournal.com]

Will keep an eye open for the book. Fair comment about the film though :)

Even though the creators were Jews, and thus there had to be a tiny bit of cultural conditioning creeping in, the whole concept of a 'superman' was Germanic in origin and somewhat of a fantasy idea in the first place. I've always thought of Jewish people as being very pragmatic - I suspect a metaphor-for-the-Jews-X-Men would look rather less superhero, and a whole lot more Mossad-like...

Perhaps the idea isn't a metaphor at all, but a cautionary tale with a moral. Said moral being that we shouldn't marginalise minority groups because one day that group may become able to wield power over the majority...

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

Do you have a source for the whole concept of a superman being Germanic?

My impression is that the idea of a single superhero (as distinct from a superior race) goes back to Wylie's Gladiator(1930).

[johanna-alice.livejournal.com]

Its a bit before that. Have a look at Fredrick Nietzshe's Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

[khbrown.livejournal.com]

Would Professor X's approach be akin to that of Nietzsche's Ultimate Man, and that of Magneto his Overman?

[johanna-alice.livejournal.com]

I'll stick my hands up and say I'm not sure. I've never done much more than soak up odds and sods of philosophy.

As I understand it though, Neitzsche's Ubermensch can be translated as either ultimate or over-man. In which case Prof. X / Magneto are merely different sides of the same coin. This motif of antagonists merely making different moral choices that lead them to 'good' and 'evil' is something that recurs again and again in popular fiction. I suppose one could argue that this popular trend could have been deliberately utilised rather than being a cultural influence...

[0olong.livejournal.com]

What about heroes from Greek, Celtic and other mythologies? It's fair to say that some of them are quite superpowered, and not all of them come from 'superior races' (or at least, not to the extent that that explains their powers)...

[surliminal.livejournal.com]

Not quite the same. The Greek gods represent not-human forces eg love, the sun, wine-drunkenness. They just happen to have man shapes (and nt always - Zeus v fond of being a swan, etc etc.)

The concept of the NIetzschian uber man is quite distinct - it is a human but a certain perfect quality of human, vamped up as it were... (=> Aryan super-man, etc etc)

[0olong.livejournal.com]

That's why I referred to heroes, not gods. Hercules, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't represent any particular primal force, but it's probably fair to say he has super-strength; similarly Achilles' invulnerability everywhere but his heel; in Celtic myth, Cúchulainn's 'warp spasm' could certainly be considered a super-power, etc.

I'm not equating this with the Nietzschian Übermensch, but I would suggest that such heroes are for the most part more direct fore-runners of comic-book superheroes.