Quick Poll

[andrewducker]

You know how men are. They think "no" means "yes" and "get lost" is "take me, I'm yours!"

[Poll #452581]

I'll post tonight on the fuss that it caused...

Comments

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

I'll post tonight on the fuss that it caused...

I want instant gratification, damn you!

I don't see how the phrase could be seen as sexist towards women unless someone were claiming that "all women say things like that" or something.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

It could be sexist against women if it is used as a justification for rape. And sadly it is. Wasn't it Lord Denning who dismissed a rape case on those grounds? The prosecution case was that the man had forced himself on a woman even though she said 'No'. The defence admitted she said no, but argued that 'When a woman says no she means yes'.

And in British law a man is acquitted of rape if he believes that a woman consented. Therefore the statement above is sexist in that it literally makes it legal for men to attack women with impunity.

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

I never knew that. Right now I'd argue that it's a ludicrous interpretation of the statement, and that it was the people doing the interpreting who were sexist, not the statement itself.

But I need to think about it some more. Perhaps I should change my answer to 'both'.

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

Same here. I'm struggling to wrap my head around that.

[broin.livejournal.com]

Likewise. Perhaps Andy wanted us to assume it was a woman speaking?

[drplokta]

It's still not sexist against women, because it could be used equally as a justification for homosexual rape -- as far as spurious justifications go, it's entirely even-handed in its treatment of the genders.

[missedith01.livejournal.com]

It has to be a reasonable belief. Since 1 May 2004.

[missedith01.livejournal.com]

It's equally sexist whoever said it.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

I have to say it - where are these men, are any of them cute, and do they also think 'yes' means 'yes' :-)

But I've only had to put a man off about twice in my entire life. Very few 'unacceptables' have ever been interested enough in me for me to notice.

[drainboy.livejournal.com]

I often have difficulty believing that "yes" means "yes". Normally I need a "yes, seriously, yes, c'mon, I mean it, sersiously, YES!".

To which I normally reply "Are you sure?

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Heh. That sounds very familiar. :)

[communicator.livejournal.com]

However, it is not presumed in law that if a man says 'no' to anal sex he 'really' means yes.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

precisely. if the statemtn Andy mentions is supposed to be taken literally then it makes an assertion about what 'men' think. therefore, unless we say that 'what men think' is unreasonable it gives reasonable groudns for rape.

of course the statement itself is garbage, and 'men' don't really think that no means yes - but some of them pretend to

[communicator.livejournal.com]

typing hurriedly at work when I'm supposed to be doing something else - sorry for the many typos

Assuming male/female

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

Degrading to men. Degrading to any woman who'd subscribe to that belief. Aren't we beyond this?

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

It has to be objectively reasonable ie what the court will consider is if a reasonable bystander has to think the woman was indicating yes, not the rapist. That "objective" viewpoint will not prima facie depend on stereotypes.

[dapperscavenger.livejournal.com]

It is complete bollocks to make such a fuss of this, as women have been saing it for blinking centuries, just as men make jokes about 'a womans place'.

It ain't gonna stop. Its just harmless fun. And what good is caused by moaning and whining about it? There are more important things to think about.

PC gone mad.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Not uncommon. Which means some of us women are agressively direct enough to scare the ones who don't need quite so much comfirmation :-)