Vertical Wind turbines

Date: 2021-04-29 11:47 am (UTC)
danieldwilliam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] danieldwilliam
15% increase (in something, output, capacity factor, levelised cost of electricity - not sure) is quite an improvement.

Re: Vertical Wind turbines

Date: 2021-04-29 01:01 pm (UTC)
dewline: Text - "On the DEWLine" (Default)
From: [personal profile] dewline
Definitely an improvement.

Re: Vertical Wind turbines

Date: 2021-04-29 10:25 pm (UTC)
armiphlage: (Daniel)
From: [personal profile] armiphlage
Agreed, it's a huge engineering success, except they say, "The technology allows THIS PART of the assembly line to run 15 percent faster" (emphasis added). Per Goldratt's Theory of Constraints, that 15% improvement is completely useless to the factory, unless that part of the assembly line is the overall process bottleneck. Improving a machine's speed to greater than Takt time can often increase equipment wear or inventory costs.

Let's say you are making torque converters 15% faster. Either you pause that equipment for nine minutes out of every hour, or else you're going to have a huge pile of extra torque converters piled up in front of the next step in the process. Those extra torque converters would cost money to make, store, and insure; if the design changed, any extra torque converters would need to be upgraded or scrapped.

Sure, some of the time saved can be used for maintenance on the torque converter robot - but nobody would buy equipment that needs 25 hours of maintenance a week. And since they're robotic, you can't save on labour by only running the robot 6 days out of 7 - the capital cost of a robot stays the same no matter the runtime, and the variable costs are trivial.

Back in 1999, we were building telecom equipment, and our wavesolder machine was only doing a unit every five minutes. We needed a unit every 2 minutes. I used existing equipment to increase our throughput to 105 units per hour. I was expecting my boss at the time (now a big big boss at Big River company) to be happy. He explained his displeasure in a more polite manner than my current boss would have done.

Re: Vertical Wind turbines

Date: 2021-04-30 09:00 am (UTC)
danieldwilliam: (Default)
From: [personal profile] danieldwilliam
Thanks - that's a good point and some very interesting commentary.

I'm no expert on the physics or engineering of wind turbines of any sort. I was a finance and market analyst bod for a power company and then a policy wonk for a bit.

So it remains a bit unclear to me what bit of the performance is being boosted by 15% and what implications that would have for the application of Goldratt's theory.

In simple terms if you increased the peak output of a power station by 15% you might find that you couldn't move the power to the grid because of physical limitations on the connections to the grid, or associated commercial limitation.

It's more complicated with wind turbines because of the way the profile of electrical energy out works with wind speed in. It's not uncommon, for example, for a wind turbine to be deliberately designed to have a lower maximum output in order for it to generate better in low or high winds and improve the overall output. And the physics of the fouling or anti-fouling is not in my wheelhouse at all.

But, as a simple assumption, if you were able to increase the maximum output of a these wind turbines by 15% you can accomodate that increase relatively straight-forwardly if the project is new by increasing the size of the grid connection. Assuming (big assumption in the UK) that the grid isn't generally constrained near your project.) If the 15% improvement was to overall output by improving the low wind speed and high wind speed conversion, that's even better because mostly you are using the same sized grid connection but more efficiently.

Re: Vertical Wind turbines

Date: 2021-04-30 12:05 pm (UTC)
armiphlage: Ukraine (Default)
From: [personal profile] armiphlage
To clarify - my concern was about the improvement in "Ford's Ever-Smarter Robots Are Speeding Up the Assembly Line", rather than "Vertical turbines far more efficient in large-scale wind farms".

Increasing the overall output of a device whose output is not directly linked to the input of another device, or where the system can take advantage of large intermediate buffers, is awesome.

Increasing the local output of a device directly linked to the output of another device, in a system that cannot take advantage of large intermediate buffers, is often very bad. Like increasing how fast you can eat food, without making changes to your digestive tract, so you stuff yourself until you explode.

Reuters

Date: 2021-04-29 12:54 pm (UTC)
dewline: Text - "On the DEWLine" (Default)
From: [personal profile] dewline
You know that they're paywalling up, right?

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