More complex behaviour from genetic origins

[andrewducker]

here.

They also found that mouse mothers without functioning Mest genes displayed little or no maternal instinct. “Although the mutant Mest females showed a normal investigative behavior towards the pups, they failed to respond with appropriate maternal behavior,” the authors explained, with many not even bothering to “free (pups from) their extra-embryonic tissues in preparation for feeding.” The mothers were also uninterested in building a nest for their newborns, the authors report. “In comparison,” they say, “nest building was an immediate response in all (normal) females.”

Cheers to autodidactic for finding that.

Comments

[weetanya.livejournal.com]

erm. fixy html taggies ?

[andrewducker]

cheers m'dear.

[autodidactic.livejournal.com]

I don't like the judgmental, nonscientific words in the report, such as:

“Although the mutant Mest females showed a normal investigative behavior towards the pups, they failed to respond with appropriate maternal behavior,” the authors explained, with many not even bothering to “free (pups from) their extra-embryonic tissues in preparation for feeding.” The mothers were also uninterested in building a nest for their newborns, the authors report. “In comparison,” they say, “nest building was an immediate response in all (normal) females.”

Typical and atypical, or even maternal and non-maternal would be better than normal and abnormal. When behavior is considered, it's hard to tell definitively what is 'normal' or 'abnormal'.

I guess the female mice weren't havin' that shit.

A.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Odd, because in primate studies, female monkeys who have not been around other monkey mothers with children have absolutely no clue how to treat their offspring. They have some vague idea the creature is important, but generally neglect it and researchers need to take it away before it starves to death or is badly injured. At least in primates, the whole maternal instinct is purely cultural.

[rainstorm.livejournal.com]

I'd be happy to agree that different animals have different reactions and the amount of inbuilt "knowledge" is going to vary a lot.

I've read an awful lot of cases of people who, on having their first child, quite literally undergo an epiphany, whereby they go from thinking of kids as "something that would be nice" to "something vital to my life". The actual knowledge of how to deal with kids would, of course, be a completely different thing.

[andrewducker]

I assume that they're using normal in the "majority of the population" sense.

i.e. normal = usual

[andrewducker]

And that's what I get for using someone else's computer... Reply to this one rather than the one above, I forgot to log Sana out and me in!

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I've read an awful lot of cases of people who, on having their first child, quite literally undergo an epiphany, whereby they go from thinking of kids as "something that would be nice" to "something vital to my life".

That's exceptionally easily explained by factors that have nothing to do with any parenting instincts.

The reaction is (I am fairly certain) identical to that produced by fraternity hazings and many similar situations. The greater the difficulty, expense, or pain of attaining something, the more most the vast majority of people desire it. Studies have proven that for most people, this reaction is extremely significant. Pregnancy and birth have all of the above for the mother and much of this for the father. After that, the parents now has a difficult to care for infant who will completely devour their lives for the next few years and will be a vast responsibility and expense for the next 18+ years. This is essentially custom-made to produce the above response, especially since the alternative of deciding to have a child and then giving it up for adoption is both socially frowned upon and psychologically unlikely if the parents wanted it in the first place, since the mother has already gone to a lot of trouble to have it.

In addition (here I am getting a bit more speculative), the vast amounts of sleep deprivation found among most new parents likely acts much like the sleep deprivation that works so well in brainwashing, combined of course with yet more reinforcement that this infant of of vast value because the parents are giving up both all free time and much of their sleep to care for it.

it is perhaps worth noting that all of this is written from the perspective of someone who is resolutely childfree.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

Hee - you just described me....

[andrewducker]

Yeah, you were one of my personal experiences of it. But I've read about it a fair bit too.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

That's something that I have observed. Scary. I mean how does it work? Previously perfectly sensible people suddenly become fear and guilt ridden snarlingly protective obsessive bores. And this is considered normal (which I suppose it is).

SO not (in this or any other universe)me....

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

I mean I understand the biological imperatives, and why they exist etc, but why do people, knowing all the same things that I do, still embark on the process? Surely rationality gets some sort of look-in? Why is it so rarely enough? Don't people want to stay who they are?

If it wasn't invasive surgery, I'd have done something permanent as insurance against any weird subconscious conspiracy. Oh well, I have installed the next best option

[andrewducker]

Some people like the idea of the process even before the brainwashing kicks in. Or at least like the idea of kids.

And rationality gets a look-in with only a teeny proportion of the population.

[kpollock.livejournal.com]

I suppose it's like religion, in that I'll never understand why some people like the idea.

[allorin.livejournal.com]

At Andy's request, see thread.