Very cool, if true

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-16704731 says that Plaid Cymru fancy the idea - but I don't know how much support they have, and what the average Welsh person thinks.

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bracknellexile.livejournal.com

I have no duty to post. I have posted recently but that's not the point. I'm not duty-bound to just because I have an LJ :)

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alitheapipkin.livejournal.com

This too. My LJ is my head-decluttering space, I like connecting with people but I mostly post on my own journal for me.

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nmg.livejournal.com

And what's wrong with Cornish independence, I might ask? You're exposing an unacceptable degree of north-centric bias...

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zz

i don't care.

something i've not heard anyone talk about (although i've not been paying attention) - would an independent scotland be a republic, ERII monarchy, or something else?

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bart-calendar.livejournal.com

There's been too much bloodshed over the years to let Northern Ireland go, but nobody would raise much of a fuss about losing the Welsh.

If Liverpool wanted to go as well, I suspect there wouldn't be much backlash.

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We get to keep the Queen, at least to start with. Future governments may change, of course.

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Oooh, I forgot Cornwall, criminal really, as my parents live in Devon. How much support is there over there for independence (as opposed to federalism)?

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chess

I keep dithering about whether to post 'I want to do more writing!' and ask what to write, but a) it's possibly just taking on more stuff to do when I really need to be doing less stuff and b) Basic accounts still can't post polls, which makes the exercise less appealing.

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naath.livejournal.com

I think Scotland becoming independent would cause secessionists elsewhere, especially elsewhere in the UK, to gain hope about the possibility of success and perhaps as a result push harder.

I'm not sure what regions are full of secessionists to the point a)of making a noise and b)of actually managing to leave.

NI has such a long history of violence over the question that I don't think the Scots leaving will make much difference.

If England leaves the EU I'm moving to Scotland...

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Come on up, the weather's *looks out of window* nice for at least the next thirty seconds!

NI's violence might die away somewhat if it was independent, rather than part of a UK. But who can tell?

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naath.livejournal.com

Well NI has violent people who want to join Eire and violent people who want to stay in the UK... I guess if it were made entirely independent they might both say "OK, that's a fine compromise" but they might equally both get very cross indeed... (I don't think there's a substantial number of people who actively desire and independent NI).

I'm sure Scotland is a lovely place to live; however it lacks all the people I love living near and also would mean finding job, housing etc. etc. (I HATE CHANGE, woe is me).

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The interesting question you've missed off here is if Scotland becomes independant, what happens about Shetland. I can see the Shetland islanders pushing for independence from an independent Scotland, it is, after all, ~their~ oil...

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I could see them demanding a transfer to Norway, but they seem a tad small to be entirely independent.

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One could argue 5 million is a tad small to be entirely independent too. But, that to one side, Shetland islanders have always had half an eye on independence, just because the oil revenue would instantly make them all multi-millionaires.

Very tempting, waving that much money under peoples noses.

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I'm pretty much Welsh (I was born and brought up in Wrexham but have English parents, and I now live in Cornwall).

What you say seems like a good approximation to me. I think of Wales as four quadrants. The four regions are very different on things like Welsh language, politics and even sport. (South Wales: rugby union / North Wales: football.)

Northwest and central Wales is where the Welsh speakers tend to come from and would be the most likely area to push for independence I think.

Northeast Wales (where I'm from), east of Llangollen, has more in common culturally with Cheshire and Shropshire and even Merseyside than it does with Dolgellau or Caernarfon.

Far southwest Wales (Pembrokeshire) is mostly English-ish, for ancient historical reasons.

Southeast Wales is where most of the people live and is core Labour territory.

Outside of the northwest, Welsh-speakers and Plaid Cymru supporters are more likely to be middle-class types, which I think is the leftovers of a sort of professional ethnic cleansing in the 60s and 70s. (When I went to primary school in a town only 8 miles or so from the border, all of the teachers had to speak Welsh, even though it was an English-speaking school).

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I was thinking the same thing...

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What do you think would happen if Cornwall got an independence referendum?

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And what about the Hebrides? Of old, they were part of the Kingdom of the Isles and Man and only became Scottish in 1266 which is around about the same time that Edward I of England was conquering Wales.

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Disinterest and a resounding no vote.

There is a Cornish Nationalist Party (Mebyon Kernow) but they're generally thought of as nutters, at least in the almost-civilised part of southeast Cornwall where I live. In the more remote parts where people marry their cousins* and routinely have six toes on each foot, they may be more popular...

* I used to work for a partner in my office who literally married his cousin. He was (very) Cornish.

Edited Date: 2012-01-27 06:06 pm (UTC)

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I'd imagine an independent Hebrides would be extremely wealthy too, lots of oil out that direction as well.

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Of course when the two realms first had the same monarch, it was a Scottish monarch.

(Of course then you have all that messy stuff with the Hanoverians...)

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I wonder if they'd need chartered accountants...?

The southern half of the Outer Hebrides (North Uist, South Uist etc) is in my opinion the most beautiful part of the British Isles. I'd be tempted...

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I can't say I've ever known a representative range of Islanders, but those I have met are very independently minded, I'm sure they'd quite happily cut ties with the mainland and go their own way if they could.

But yes, it's a special part of the world those islands off the West coast.

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wig.livejournal.com

YORKSHIRE AUTONOMOUS ZONE

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lil-shepherd.livejournal.com

Oh the other hand, recent polling suggests that the English (and possibly the Welsh too) are getting fed up with Scottish MPs voting on English and English and Welsh legislation. The West Lothian question is being asked again, and this time the English (and possibly the Welsh) seem to be coming round to demanding it be answered.

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octopoid-horror.livejournal.com

I'm curious if a fully independent Scotland would result in some of Scotland's regional/religious divides becoming more pervasive without the common spectre of England/Westminster's control to unite in opposition to.

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my aunt/uncle are first cousins. I grew up believing this to be completely normal.

still don't have a problem with it, entirely dismissing genetics issues

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quite. A Scottish Monarch who couldn't get to London fast enough. Royal Jamie hated Edinburgh, spent as little time there as he could get away with.

the celebrations when he became dual monarch [seen as Scotland defeating England] lasted as long as it took the people to realise he was leaving them in puddles of their own shit. Literally.

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I'm aware of very little desire for Welsh Independence. There are currently no overt political moves to even try to make that happen.

I have heard mutterings as far south as York for people wanting to join an independent Scotland, though

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I don't post because I'm a miserable bastard.

On the occasions that I have lots of happy things to talk about, I'm far too busy doing them.

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I'm pretty sure there are existing independent nations with smaller populations than Scotland...
though I may be missing your point

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I had to read this three times to figure what you meant...

gotcha. Yes, one big concern is the extent to which pro-independence is actually anti-English sentiment. The latter is not very helpful.

I can't be bothered checking whether religion is still that big an issue, but it would be rather horrid to see the East/West North/South divides rearing up again. Even if it did, I'd hope there were a solid 5 years of relative celebratory goodwill before people started being proper asshats.

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quick line of thought*:

Scotland wins independence. Keeps Liz II as monarch, which mostly makes sense given the Scots monarchial history - though there are a few pretenders. Some jiggling happens over electoral law, Tories spend a bit of time wondering whether to carry on existing.

Rest of UK watches real close as the SNP start governing for real, and the Scots economy swings away from Westminster - where Osborne is still butchering single mothers and disabled people and feeding them to the banks.

It takes two years for folks to decide whether it's working, and whether other regions want to strike it alone as well.

The Eurozone is now effectively Germany. Or may as well be.

Scotland stikes up close relations with Scandanavia, which is starting to polarise between its left and right wing nations. Energy policy is looking pretty good though, mostly due to very sensible Danish models.

Newcastle wants to be Scots, and there are similar rumblings as far south as York. This is mostly due to the North being an epic Tory clusterfuck.

Massive schism in Wales. While pro-devolution, there wasn't much of an independence movement. Now the North would quite like to be unified with Shropshire, the South just want to be left alone, thanks very much.

NI wants closer - much closer - Scots relations, but the sectarian issues are still too big to make that altogether feasible. It remains a common hope that it'll all work out in the end.

* almost all of this I made up while writing. The Welsh bit is via philmophlegm's comment.

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drdoug.livejournal.com

If Scotland became independent, I expect an awful lot of discussion of these sorts of issues within the remaining UK, but not a lot to happen as a result. One key problem with federalism is that there are very few people who are actually keen on introducing an extra layer of government.

However, things would get Interesting fast elsewhere in Europe. Assuming a benign birth of the new Scottish state (and I note that nobody I've read is predicting instant disaster), separatist movements across the EU would get a massive shot in the arm. The Basque country, Catalonia, Belgium, Corsica, Italy, Galicia, Andalusia, hell, even Brittany and Bavaria. And probably plenty of places further east that I don't know about.

(Plus, of course, all those 'frozen conflicts' like Transnistria and the Caucasus. And Kurdistan, oh my.)

So for this reason I am expecting the EU as an institution to be unenthusiastic at best at the prospect of independent Scotland. And also very keen on the principles of the apportionment of public debt obligations.

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