Date: 2012-03-21 11:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Oh yes, we still have Sunday trading laws down here. Any shop bigger than a corner store has to close at 10pm on Saturday night and can only reopen for a total of 6 hours on a Sunday. It's incredibly annoying when you forget and try to go to a supermarket at 4.30pm only to find it closed.

And these regulations were only recently brought in. Until 1994 it was illegal for large shops to open at all on Sundays. I remember when the Major government brought in the reforms, there was a lot of opposition from religious groups which is why the regulations were not completely removed.

Another oddity of these regulations is that it is illegal for large shops to open at all on Easter Sunday and Christmas Day.
Edited Date: 2012-03-21 11:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-21 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Sunday trading laws are so damn annoying.

What we need is better laws ensuring that all employees get a reasonable amount of time off work, which should include at least one full day a week; more importantly these laws should actually be enforced.

But having everyone have their day off on the SAME DAY just doesn't work at all! If I have only one day off a week I need to do my shopping on that day; but I can't if everywhere is shut because everyone has to have the same day...

Date: 2012-03-21 12:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerrypolka.livejournal.com
What we need is better laws ensuring that all employees get a reasonable amount of time off work, which should include at least one full day a week; more importantly these laws should actually be enforced.

Totally agreed.

Date: 2012-03-21 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khbrown.livejournal.com
One of the few benefits of different religions having different special days/periods of observance, I suppose.

Though it might be unfair if one religious group gets more marginal utility out of their special day than others, or has more holy days/holidays than another. I think there's something about this in John Rawls Theory of Justice...



Date: 2012-03-21 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Whenever sunday trading comes up, someone always asserts that large supermarkets will find it easier to have cover on Sunday than small shops, and sunday trading is necessary to avoid giving supermarkets a further unfair advantage. Unfortunately, I can't remember anyone actually discussing it, so I've no idea if there's actually any truth in it or not.

(I also admit that the idea of having a day of "rest" is reasonably appealing, but that I wouldn't actually do that myself, and that I don't think having less than half of the shops shut actually helps in any meaningful way.)

Date: 2012-03-21 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Good point. It seems to work fine in Scotland then? I assume so, given what you thought about England :) In which case, no, I can't see any good reason for it, and I agree we should abandon it (preferably with some sort of sensible rights for people who are asked to work at the weekend).

Date: 2012-03-21 11:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khbrown.livejournal.com
Does that mean you'd ban alcohol and tobacco? Or are there some things where when the genie is out of the bottle it would only make it worse to change the law?

Date: 2012-03-21 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khbrown.livejournal.com
"And that's my normal test for laws - if things were different, would we pass laws to change them to their current state."

I took this to mean that if we had been in a position to know the harm smoking does and alcohol does in excess, would we prefer that we had never allowed them in the first place?

Obviously we can't because we know that prohibition would only make things worse.

Date: 2012-03-21 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Can you explain the C+++ joke to us non tech people?

Date: 2012-03-21 11:20 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-21 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undeadbydawn.livejournal.com
ah.
that was my first guess, but I immediately thought... no. No-one can possibly be that fucking stupid

Date: 2012-03-21 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I doubt anyone has actually ever tried that mistake (although I imagine people have made conceptually similar ones, such as not realising that some programs can have their source code executed directly, and others need to be compiled first).

There's no _direct_ evidence that the post was a parody, but I would say it's certain. I literally can't imagine someone reading and understanding the C spec without ever having written a program in a text editor, and if someone were genuinely confused, I'd expect a lot more incoherent comments complaining about the answers :)

Date: 2012-03-21 12:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerrypolka.livejournal.com
Fewer and fewer miracle drugs.

Date: 2012-03-21 12:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerrypolka.livejournal.com
A shibboleth to which you do not hold.

(Sorry. *ducks*)

Date: 2012-03-21 12:27 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-21 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I’m conflicted about Sunday trading.

On the one hand I can see that if you only have one day to run your messages then having all the shops shut on that day is difficult.

Also, it is arguably not my business to stand between a willing seller of labour and a willing buyer of labour and between a willing retailer and a willing purchaser.

But…

… I quite like the idea that we have days when as many people as possible have a day off and we spend the day not working.

Also, I suspect there is a reason why a day of rest every half dozen days or so is a cultural norm.


How would people’s live work if instead of 52 fixed weekends, a dozen fixed long weekends and 4-6 flexible weeks of holiday everyone got 134 – 144 days of holiday to take whenever they could arrange it with their employer and Saturday and Sunday were just ordinary days?

Date: 2012-03-21 12:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I think I’d be happy with a system that gave you 134+ days off and mandated that you had an unintereputed 24 hour break weekly and 48 hours fortnightly.

I think there are genuine health and safety issues about people working longer than certain shifts. Not just the danger of tired people making mistakes but also we shouldn’t be exhausting people.

I used to be able to swop bank holidays on an informal basis. This was because bank holidays in the UK were not the same as bank holidays in the US and tended to clash with month end. This was useful.

I’m currently on flexi-time so I have much the same ability to shift my work patterns around to suit myself.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Several of our US-based customers have taken this one step further and switched from a 5 to a 4-day week. Working 10 hours each day, they do the same number of hours per week as you would doing 5x8-hour days, but they say their employees prefer it, and they find it more efficient. I think I would prefer it too. I'd happily work an additional couple of hours each day if it meant getting an extra day off each week.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I could operate that kind of system using flexi-time if I wanted and a couple of folk at work have a formal pattern of working 4 longer days a week.

My tolerance personally for 4 longer days is mixed and rather depends on how I'm feeling about work.

I quite like flexi-time.

I think one advantage of everyone shifting to 4*10 hour weeks would be then being able to reduce the working day and end up with 4*8 hour days.

but then I think we work too hard in the West.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
but then I think we work too hard in the West

My Production Manager disagrees. He's from India where a 6-day week is the norm. It's the same in many Asian countries.

Date: 2012-03-21 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I'm sure he does.

I think Asians work too hard too.

6 day weeks would have been the norm for us 100 or so years ago.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
What is the virtue of having "days when as many people as possible have a day off and we spend the day not working"?

Many of the ways I wish to spend my days off involve other people working on that day if not at the moment I wish to be doing the thing (and many of the things that can be arranged to not involve other people working require a great deal more planning if such arranging is needed). More importantly many of the things I want to do that need to be done on my days off (because I can't do them on days I go to work) involve other people working on those days.

Personally I see no virtue at all in having the same day off as everyone else in the country. I see increasing benefit in having the same regular days off as specific other people as my closeness to those people increases.

Date: 2012-03-21 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I think the difficulty of arranging regular specific days off as certain other people is the main benefit of all of us sharing the same day off. That's the main practical reason for it.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
The biplane sounds really cool, but what proportion of really cool-sounding potential tech actually goes into use?

I'm still waiting for gasoline made from turkey guts.

Date: 2012-03-21 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
The room temperature distillation possibility sounds way cool.

Coupled with the supersonic bi-plane I will be expecting my personal jet-car in the post from Amazon any day now.

Date: 2012-03-21 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
For the record I’m frankly gobsmacked and flabbergasted that people are passing legislation requiring non-indicated vaginal examinations.

It’ll be the Scolds’ Bridal for talking about abortion next.

Date: 2012-03-21 02:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I hadn't missed it.

I was reserving my practical anger for things closer to home and where I vote for the people passing the legislation.

Date: 2012-03-21 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhythmaning.livejournal.com
A pedant writes: that'll be "fewer and fewer miracle drugs"...

Date: 2012-03-21 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhythmaning.livejournal.com
It is my habit to click on "comment" rather than read other comments first.

So I read others' comments after my own.

I was amused by the misspelling of shibboleth, though... ;)

Date: 2012-03-21 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rhythmaning.livejournal.com
I'd have blamed swype if I were you...

Although it does conform to the internet rule that anyone correcting grammar will make a grammatical error.

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