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Date: 2011-11-24 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
"However, the department said that its policies on energy-efficient products, smart meters and home insulation would more than compensate - leaving the average household £94 better off."

The average home-owner, presumably... not the average renter who doesn't have options as far as purchasing appliances, installing meters or insulation.

Date: 2011-11-24 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
Addressing that kind of thing in the rental sector would mean that discussion like this of energy issues wasn't just a joke.

Plenty of rental companies (mine included) specify which power suppliers you have to be with for example. So saying "oh people can just change whenever they like" ignores a large selection of people these days.

Date: 2011-11-24 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
I watched Frozen Planet last night which had the "brinicle" footage in it. Some of the footage they have filmed for this series is just jaw-dropping, the underwater stuff in particular. Even by the standards of the BBC Natural History Unit, some of the footage used in this series has been absolutely incredible. Overlaid with David Attenborough's narration, this is one of the reasons I don't object to paying the licence fee.

Date: 2011-11-24 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
Increasing taxes and saying that people will be better off because the high prices will mean that people will have to buy less is rather like raising income taxes and saying that people will be better off because they'll choose to work less...

Date: 2011-11-24 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] naath.livejournal.com
Well, no.

The have two policies
*increase energy costs
*decrease costs of energy-saving measures; hopefully thereby bringing down the demand for energy.

They claim that these two policies will combine to cause a net financial gain for many/most people.

I don't think this is an inherently unreasonable thing to suppose might happen. Although of course whether it actually will happen depends on the detailed implementation; I am not especially hopeful about the plan as proposed.

Of course they could simply do the second thing. However a)the increased revenue collected per-unit-energy is likely to be important, especially in renewable generation and b)the increased cost of energy is more likely to push people towards looking into energy-saving measures, saying "avoid higher costs" can work better than "have lower costs" especially where people are used to the current costs.

IMHO a great many (perhaps even most) households in the UK are wasting a great deal of energy through not taking advantage of tried-and-tested energy-saving measures that would significantly reduce their energy use without decreasing the benefits that they get from that energy (house no colder, fridge no warmer, etc). Prodding people in the direction of dealing with this situation seems a pretty good policy to me; the major failing is how to force landlords to properly insulate their rented-out properties.

Date: 2011-11-24 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danieldwilliam.livejournal.com
I agree, there’s nothing logically incorrect with the view that if unit costs go up and the costs of avoiding usage go down consumer behaviour changes so that they use less energy, are no worse off and have reduced overall energy bills.

IIRC the UK could spend some £2bn on domestic energy saving measures and households would be better off so there is plenty of scope for beneficial energy saving measures at a household level.

Cuba increased electricity prices threefold some years ago because Cubans were just wasting power and they kept having brown outs. The sudden price shock appears to have concentrated their minds but I think I would have to view any news story coming out of Cuba with sceptism.

The thing that rarely gets discussed is the premium one puts on energy security and price smoothness.

Date: 2011-11-24 09:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undeadbydawn.livejournal.com
yes. This can work as long as they're willing to pour rather a lot of money into household efficiency measures.

this is something I'm extremely keen on [I don't use heating, no matter how cold it gets] but can't afford.

Date: 2011-11-24 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
I must admit that I don't quite get the whole Frank Miller furore.

He said some things that lots of comic book geeks disagreed with.

Yeah, and...?

In real life, most people at any one time don't agree with you. And most people realise this. Regardless of your political views, most people don't share them. In fact, Mr Miller's political views seem to be more mainstream than say Alan Moore's. Alan Moore describes himself as an anarchist. That's quite a niche political position, so I would guess that there are more people holding different political views to Alan Moore than there are holding different political views to Frank Miller.

Regardless of this, what I find really bizarre is the people you see saying they will never read anything by Frank Miller again. If your mind is so closed that you will only read works by authors with the same political views as you, and you choose your reading material accordingly, then you are missing out on so much.

This is especially so in geek culture, where some of our great figures hold or held extremely unpleasant political views. (H.P., China... I'm looking in your direction...)

Date: 2011-11-24 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
Given that you and someone else on here made some comic recommendations to me recently (which impacted my Amazon wishlist...), about when in Frank Miller's career should I stop?

Date: 2011-11-24 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
I like Dark Knight Strikes Again, but not nearly as much as Year One, Dark Knight Returns or Sin City. I have no idea if Sin City stays good - I've only read the first few...

Date: 2011-11-24 01:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
Should I read Year One or Dark Knight Returns first?

Date: 2011-11-24 09:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undeadbydawn.livejournal.com
Sin City remains a good read. I'd do it.

some of the latter books are of surprising depth and beauty.

Date: 2011-11-24 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Personally, I thought Frank Miller was just lampooning Watchmen - because that entry is almost exactly what Rorschach would have written in his journal if he was around today.

Date: 2011-11-24 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] undeadbydawn.livejournal.com
you think?

I was left with an exactly opposing view of Rorschach. My Rorschach would have been out there, piling into abusive coppers and throwing bank execs out of windows.

fascinating :)

Date: 2011-11-24 01:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
In my experience, once some people hear about an author/director/musician saying something that they don't agree with politically or morally, they start to see/imagine aspects of those views in their work.

Sometimes those views really are espoused in the work (but were there all along to greater or lesser extent, so why the hell did the person only object now), sometimes they're conventions of the genre (an example would be varying degrees of right wing views in superhero comics) and other times the person is outright imagining it.

I'd imagine the thinking is that their boycotting of said comic or whatever is a way of taking a stand. Frank Miller's political views will undoubtedly be looked back on like the casual racism in some Lovecraft stories - it's a product of the time (unfortunately).

Much like Dave Sim, Frank Miller's political views/philosophy have always been on display, just to a greater extent as time goes on.

Date: 2011-11-24 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] philmophlegm.livejournal.com
Those are all good points.

I like China Mieville's statement on this:

"I’m not a leftist trying to smuggle in my evil message by the nefarious means of fantasy novels. I’m a science fiction and fantasy geek. I love this stuff. And when I write my novels, I’m not writing them to make political points. I’m writing them because I passionately love monsters and the weird and horror stories and strange situations and surrealism, and what I want to do is communicate that. But, because I come at this with a political perspective, the world that I’m creating is embedded with many of the concerns that I have... I’m trying to say I’ve invented this world that I think is really cool and I have these really big stories to tell in it and one of the ways that I find to make that interesting is to think about it politically. If you want to do that too, that’s fantastic. But if not, isn’t this a cool monster?"

Date: 2011-11-24 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I think there's two things. The first is, I think people care more the more contemporary the author is, both because it's more visceral to them, and because it's still possible it may make some difference.

The second is, I think most people are happy with some disagreement. But it hardly seems surprising that being called theives and rapists, idiots, anti-americans, with overtones of "anything you think is so stupid it's not worth listing to" and formenting anti-Islamic feeling, and blaming them for exercising their first amendment rights, is going to provoke strong reactions from people? It seems pretty obvious that people are going to be pissed off.

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