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[personal profile] andrewducker

Date: 2011-01-26 11:47 am (UTC)
supergee: (reclining)
From: [personal profile] supergee
Lotsa stuff to steal today. Thanx.

Date: 2011-01-26 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
I'm glad I'm not the only Hell Cow fan.

I'm gonna have to get my dad to find my copy of that issue in the attic and send it to me.

Date: 2011-01-26 11:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drainboy.livejournal.com
The thing that impresses me about the Taco Bell lawsuit is that it's not for damages, just to stop them using false advertising.

I would love to see fast food chains do different qualities of produce. KFC having an organic/free range chicken option (probably at double the price) for instance.

Date: 2011-01-26 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
Macdonalds or Burger King (can't remember which) does this already. Their Aberdeen Angus burgers are presumably meant to be better quality than the rest.

Date: 2011-01-26 11:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
That extreme porn law has been left deliberately vague either so that they can use it to prosecute anybody they want, or so that nobody can actually be prosecuted under it.

And I just can't figure out which is more likely.

Refusing to define what is illegal under the terms of the law opens a huge counter-argument though.

Ach, but the whole law is nonsense anyway. Any image depicting rape, makes it illegal to own any DVD that contains a rape scene.

Date: 2011-01-26 11:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
America has a similar vague law which has led some people, notably Max Hardcore to end up in jail when they had no idea they were breaking the law.

It's not even clear what content the judge and jury objected to in his films. As best I can tell it was the inclusion of puke, but that wasn't specified only implied since there are a billion watersports films out there and none of their producers have been sent to jail.

Lizzy Borden also got sent to prison last year on the same vague charges and again it was unclear what crossed the line - the simulated rape or simulated canabalism.

Either way it's crazy, because I Spit On Your Grave and many other horror films have simulated rape scenes as does Showgirls and simulated canabalism is also a horror film staple.

Date: 2011-01-26 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Ah yeah, I was just reading about that Max Hardcore case the other day, and how he was found guilty for Max Hardcore Vol 10, but volumes 1 thru 45, were apparently fine. Despite being the same sort of material.

It sounded like a prosecution team just decided to get the guy, because they personally did not like what he does, so they just kept hounding him until they got a judge who personally did not like him either, and boom, 4 years in jail.

Absolute nonsense. Makes me very nervous when States set about giving themselves power to control peoples morality, and chuck folks in jail just because they are offended. It's a short hop skip and a jump from these extreme porn laws we now have, to the powers that be deciding that somebody can be prosecuted for anal sex, or indeed, being gay.

Date: 2011-01-26 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Plus, it sucks for producers of porn (who I often do ad and web copy for) because they have no idea what will be prosecuted.

One of my clients runs both bareback.com and Urine Nation and is constantly terrified that the feds will one day find one or the other "extreme."

If the law simply said "this is what you can not depict" it would be a different thing. But forcing people to simply guess? WTF?

Running an adult company is hard enough work already why make it harder?

Seriously, the law seems designed to trip people up. For example one thing that attracts people to keep coming back to a given site is discussion forums.

So, you need to have them. But he has to spend two hours a day going through them, because dudes like to post pictures of their boyfriends and sometimes with twinks there is no way in hell to know/verify if the dude is at least 18 - and if one of his customers posts a picture of his 17 year old boyfriend it's not the customer who could go to jail, it's my client!

WTF????

When he's on vacation I sub for him as a moderator and do you know what it's like to look at 200 pics and have to ask yourself "Is this one at least 18?" while knowing that if you make a mistake your boss could go to prison?

Date: 2011-01-26 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
They're trying to legislate morality, which is such a regressive step backwards after all the hard fought battles that got us to a state of relative freedom of sexual expression.

I understand the English extreme porn law defines illegal porn as anything in which actual physical harm could result. So theoretically all bondage S&M porn can now get you a jail sentence, likewise anything including anal sex, or indeed anything including unprotected sex, which, theoretically, could result in death. I was amazed there wasn't more fuss about the law when it was passed, but it was one of those things New Labour packed into their final months in office, that didn't get time to be properly looked at and picked apart. And the tories just love the law, because it means they can lock up whichever sick deviants they like.

And yeah, if Max Hardcore went to jail for four years for making movies including freely consenting adults, then I can totally understand why your client is paranoid.

Are you not legally covered by having a disclaimer on the forum saying 'All pictures must be of adults over 18'?

Date: 2011-01-26 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
We have that disclaimer up but the law says we have to enforce it or else face prosecution.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
So if somebody carried a grudge and wanted to cause mischief, it would be ridiculously easy for them to post pictures of an under 18 year old on your clients forum, and then inform the police?

Date: 2011-01-26 01:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
If we didn't take it down, yes.

The law says he become liable if he leaves it up for more than 24 hours.

So, the result is once a day he or I have to spend two hours deleting anything questionable.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Geez.

And for all the time and effort and money spent legislating and policing porn, how many people has your client ever hurt?

Date: 2011-01-26 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
What I find weird is that the age of consent in much of america is 16, so it's perfectly fine for these dudes to have 17 year old boyfriends and fuck their brains out, but not fine for them to post pictures of their 17 year old boyfriends.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
And speaking of Max Hardcore again, apparently he was charged with producing Child Pornography, even though none of the models involved were children. Because it 'looked' like child pornography.

Which opens the door to anybody dressing up as a schoolgirl being targetted with child pornography prosecutions.

Which just makes me think about that scene in V For Vendetta, where Natalie Portman is dressed as a schoolgirl.

And I guess Leon could never have been made in todays climate.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Or Lolita.

(For American readers Leon was called The Professional in the United States.)

Date: 2011-01-26 01:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Didn't Apple already ban Lolita from apple devices?

Date: 2011-01-26 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Not sure.

Google won't let you use the word "Lolita" in Google AdWords, even though its the name of a type of fashion.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
I believe 'lolita' also wound up on their list of banned search terms.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Also, what is allowed is insane.

While it's jail if a picture of a dude who is 17 is put up, his lawyers tell him the threads where guys post that that they are "Poz and looking to breed neg bottoms" is fine as are the threads about "stealthing."

Now, I don't think anything should be banned, but if you are going to ban something, serocoversion threads and stealth threads would come to mind before pictures of dudes who are old enough to legally fuck.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
You mean threads of people who are HIV+ looking to deliberately infect others?

See, I would have assumed that was already illegal, didn't some guy get sent to jail recently for knowingly having unprotected sex with a girl, and giving her HIV?

Date: 2011-01-26 01:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bart-calendar.livejournal.com
Yes, but as long as you have a disclaimer saying that all forum posts are considered "fantasy" then it's fine - even if it's clear that the dudes are using it to hook up.

It's their legal problem if they get caught not the sites - as long as it involves words and not images.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Crikey, that's quite something.

And yeah, I totally see your point. How can that be permissable, but pictures of legal-age people... not.

Just. Madness. And exactly why the state has no business legislating sexual morality.

Date: 2011-01-26 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
A few years back, the US Government misused the Patriot Act to get a fairly notorious porn site shut down - they allegedly suggested banks not to offer services to the site, because the money going to pornographers could be used to fund terrorism overseas. Since the site was run by an American, in America, as they well knew, this was a bit stupid. And all that this does is force that kind of site to locate itself (as much as location matters, in this day and age, which for some kinds of pornography is probably a lot, I guess) overseas.

Date: 2011-01-26 09:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
I imagine the porn industry pays its taxes, so it must have been pretty notorious for them to shut it down.

Date: 2011-01-26 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bracknellexile.livejournal.com
And as if on cue, a timely reminder that the police generally don't care what the law actually says anyway....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/26/one_compaint_gets_dvd_banned/

Date: 2011-01-26 12:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Good god, so the film was passed by the BBFC, but the police decided it was illegal anyway.

Yeah, that's the problem with these laws, they exist so that the police can basically decide if somebody should be locked up, if they don't like them.

And I for one do not trust the police and CPS with these powers.

Plus, quite how A Serbian Film got passed anyway, considering its subject matter...

Date: 2011-01-26 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Well no. Someone reported to the police that the copies on sale were different to those approved by the BBFC. The police have to investigate in those circumstances, so took a copy away to verify whether it was the case or not. It seems a perfectly reasonable course of action to me given that in this day and age the police have to investigate any complaint related to child abuse, and if they didn't there would have been an outcry in the opposite direction.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
Well yes, but didn't Blockbuster then remove the film from their shelves anyway, even though it was the passed copy?

Though I must admit, I'm not sure why anybody would want to see it.

I read a review which said 'you might think you want to see this movie, but trust me, you do not.'

Date: 2011-01-26 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
I know exactly what you mean. I read the one review, and wished I hadn't.

I'm completely confounded that it got passed by the BBFC though. Or indeed that it got made at all.

Date: 2011-01-26 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
And it does seem like he was trying to make a point about life in post-war Serbia, and how brutally dehumanising aspects of it are, or have been.

And I would absolutely defend his right to make it.

Very surprised though that it didn't fall foul of the law of the land.

Date: 2011-01-26 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-pawson.livejournal.com
Yes they did, but that was the only thing they could do. If they had continued to sell it, knowing it may be illegal, they would be breaking the law had the allegations proven to be false. Given the consequences of being found guilty of selling illegal videos involving children, I'm not surprised they decided to withdraw it from sale until they could be 100% sure they were not doing anything wrong.

Date: 2011-01-26 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
It's a useful (from the police's point of view) way to prosecute someone who you suspect of something worse. If someone gets accused of an actual crime, but that can't be proven or turns out to be unfounded suspicion, them having some violent porn becomes rather more useful for the law.

Date: 2011-01-26 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
True, good point. But, really not a tool I'm comfortable the police having.

But then I seem to trust the police a great deal less than most.

Date: 2011-01-26 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] octopoid-horror.livejournal.com
No, I didn't mean that as a good thing generally. It's just a good thing if you're looking to find something to pin on someone.

I think it's a terrible law that is intended to be used in that way. If it was intended to ban something real and specific, it would say so. It's a law of principal just so it can be applied to whateever people want.

It does raise some interesting questions. If rape is okay in a mainstream film, then how about a faked rape in pornography where scenes before and after make it clear that it's consensual? Now what about the same pornographic clip but on a -tube site without the context that shows it's consensual? If that's not okay, then surely it's illegal to watch The Accused.

Date: 2011-01-26 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gonzo21.livejournal.com
The accused is an interesting example as well, because my memory of that particular scene was that there were a lot of lingering and exploitative shots of Jodie Fosters chest. (I might be wrong, I saw it as a teenager, so my recollection of the boobs might be overly stressed in my memory.)

I wouldn't be surprised if anybody who gets accused under these laws puts together a mix tape of scenes that are available in mainstream films, and plays it in court to ask what exactly the difference is.

Because, the accused aside, I can think of a half dozen movies I've seen where the rape scenes were unquestionably shot and designed to titillate the viewer.


But then, I suppose the legislating and controlling of pornography is an age-old battle waged between Those In Power (who want it to be restricted only for their own personal entertainment, and not available to the proles) and we the people.

Date: 2011-01-26 01:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladysisyphus.livejournal.com
The thing about the KJV is part of why this semester I've had to start threatening penalties if students don't use the NRSV. I started off my first Bible class saying that students should probably use the NRSV, and they used the KJV (or the NIV, which is better, but still). Next class, I said they needed to buy an NRSV, same results. Next class, I said they need to cite the NRSV, same results.

So this time I'm saying full-on that I will take off points if they cite any other version. We'll see as the semester progresses how idle this threat is.

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