Whose stupid idea of good design is this?

[andrewducker]

Home from Glasgow. It's cold outside, and thanks to the miracle of "not being in for two days" also cold inside.

I've turned on the radiators, but thanks to the wonderful bit of design that is "putting the radiators in the window bays", much of the heat is going straight into the back of the curtains, which makes them toasty warm, but doesn't do much for the rest of the rooms. Why on earth would _anyone_ do that???

Comments

[pennski.livejournal.com]

Sadly it's usually so as not to waste bookshelf space on other walls.

[andrewducker]

But most people don't even have that many bookshelves!

[darkoshi]

I was reading about this once, and the positioning may be related to preventing condensation on the windows and/or to prevent drafts due to the difference in temperature between cold windows and other places in the room. I'm not sure, but I remember those things being mentioned.

[autopope.livejournal.com]

Tuck the curtains behind the radiators. So the rising hot air gets diverted into the room, not behind the curtains.

(Looks untidy, but works for me.)

[andrewducker]

That's pretty much what I end up doing. It's not terribly nice though.

Thankfully the heater in the living room is near the door, so I can use the window (short) for bookshelves instead!

Oh, and I dropped you an email (via your webform) about a new phone technology that seems pretty neat.

[drdoug.livejournal.com]

The theory I've heard is to put rads under windows to make a more even temp across the room. If you have heat source up one end and heat sink up the other, you're likely to experience a heat gradient.

With the heat source beneath the window, the heat convects up from the radiator and straight out of the window, leaving a nice even temperature in te rest of the room. Well, an even temperature at least - it may not be nice if you prefer it warm.

Workarounds are tucking curtains behind (as above) or some form of radiator shelf.

[dommy-nick.livejournal.com]

According to Dad (heating and ventilating engineer), this is so the air coming in through the windows causes the heated air to circulate through the room, theoretically heating the entire room that way.

I'm not sure whether I believe him or not!

Dommy_nick

[andrewducker]

That would only work if you had air coming in the windows. I try to avoid that at this time of year.

I have heard that putting a fan under a radiator makes them heat the room much better.

[undeadbydawn.livejournal.com]

My theory is that it means energy companies get more money.

It is my absolute pet hate of home design, and something I could rant about indefinitely.

Instead I will relate a wee story:

Back when I were a lad, we moved into a lovely new house right on the edge of the village [it was a priority more as my newborn little sister had been shot at through the old living room window]. After a few years my parents got the money together to put central heating in. We were allowed [my big sister and I] to choose where they went. I took a few hours to decide, eventually choosing a spot between my computer desk, bed and cupboard: diagonally opposite the window [the plumber commented that he would have chosen the very same place]. My big sister chose the fashionable 'under the window' spot. Her room was half the size of mine.
Winter came along, and the first bout of brutal cold weather hit hard one night. My sister complained loudly that even with radiator at full blast her room was bloody freezing. She came to my room to check if I was needing a hot drink or something, to find me sitting quite comfortably in shorts and t-shirt. Radiator at quarter of full. She was both stunned and outraged, went downstairs to complain bitterly to our parents at how unfair this situation was.

Put simply, I chose wisely. She did not.

Radiators under windows is about as fucking stupid as interior design gets.

Don't do it, kids.

[drdoug.livejournal.com]

That would only work if you had air coming in the windows.

... which requires not only an open ventlilator but for the air pressure to be higher outside than in. Hot air is generally less dense than cold (that's why it rises) so I'm guessing the air flow would be outwards in the relevant circumstances.

Fan assist for radiators makes sense - they mainly transfer heat to the room by convection (they really didn't ought to be called radiators) so increased airflow should increase the rate of heat transfer.

[andrewducker]

I just ordered a fan assist for my radiator :->

[ekatarina.livejournal.com]

In the house I grew up in we had electric baseboard heaters right under the windows. Same problem. The curtains would billow out due to the hot air.

So we had bricks.

Put curtains back against window, place brick on window ledge holding curtain in place.

Not very "Better Homes and Gardens" but it helped a great deal.

Sometimes I miss the window bricks.


Ekatarina

[henriksdal.livejournal.com]

bit late, but here's some Infomation about Radiators

[rhythmaning.livejournal.com]

I have always wondered that. I assumed it was easier to put the plumbing there.

New- or modern-build houses often have elctric heaters on other walls. But I dislike new build...

Now I'll read what other commenters have to say!

[sarahs-muse.livejournal.com]

I think - as hot air rises, and cold air sinks...

If you put your hand to the window cill, and move it around a bit, you'll feel a cold draft 'falling' over your hand and down, onto the carpet.

The reverse is true of the radiator... put your hand over the top of it, and you'll feel the hot draft moving upwards.

This means the hot air travels up one side of the room and heads over the ceiling, while the cool air from the window surfaces travels down and to the floor...

I think this is a convection current... nicely swearling circularly around the room...

+++++<+++<+++++ 
+             +
+Window       + Radiator
-     o       +
-     X       -
--->----->-----

The end result is you get nice fresh cold air moving across your legs, and your body if your sat down. While the ceiling light gets wonderfully heated.

[sarahs-muse.livejournal.com]

It cut down on condensation too with single glazing...
These days it's all double glazed, so the convection currents are vastly reduced, so it's probably more efficient to have them on one of the other walls - or it just doesn't matter much anymore wherever it goes.

[sarahs-muse.livejournal.com]

http://www.sei.ie/Publications/Your_Home_Publications/Radiators_sizing_and_positioning.pdf

http://www.theyellowhouse.org.uk/themes/heatwat.html#h6

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=924

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/why-do-builders-put-radiators-under-windows-6009.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-2490,00.html

So, it looks like a mix between cancelling the convection currents caused by the cold window, and that furniture is unlikely to be placed by a window, so the walls freed up for heat-radiation/conduction.