Correlation

[andrewducker]

Part of me wonders whether there's a correlation between the age a person is first exposed to the death of a close adult relative (as an adult) and the age at which they have their first child.

Comments

[bracknellexile.livejournal.com]

Do you suspect a direct correlation or an inverse one?

[andlosers.livejournal.com]

I'd never thought of that before. Would be easy to crowdsource a little data and see if it holds, unscientifically?

[andrewducker]

Only if I knew more people with kids :->

[andrewducker]

direct - I was imagining people going "My Dad's dead, someday I shall also die, wouldn't it be terrible if I was really old and didn't have someone to look after me?"

Although, obviously, not all in one sentence :->

[communicator.livejournal.com]

Intriguing. My son was born within a few weeks of the death of my then-partner's father. But I feel random conception and prostate cancer are only coincidentally related.

[andrewducker]

Now you're just messing up my stats :->

[bracknellexile.livejournal.com]

I suspect there may be more of a correlation between the age your parents had you and the age you have your first kid (teenage mum's kids tend to become teenage mums?) so there's less likely to be exposure to a death in the family at the younger age. If your parents are older and you're older when you have kids, it's more likely to be around then that one of them dies.

There may be a correlation between age at death of relative and age you procreate, but I'm not so sure there's any causal link.

[andrewducker]

You'd obviously have to compensate for the age of your parents when you were born. For which you'd probably need a decent sample size.

[paddie-gal.livejournal.com]

well, this is how my family panned out -

Dad died 1984.

Colm was 27, had been married 3 years, had his first daughter in 1990, second daughter in 1992.

Joni was 25, got married 6 months later, has never had children (and is now divorced).

Sean was 22-ish, got married 3 years later, had his first daughter in 1989, and a son in 1994.

Ciaran was 18, got married in 1990, had his son in 1992.

Joe was 9 at the time, I was 7, neither of us have kids (although we're outside your specs, anyway!)

More info: Mam died in 1992, right in between Ciaran's son and Colm's second daughter being born. Sean's son was born 18 months later.

It's not something I've ever discussed with the older siblings in my family, as I was still a kid when both my parents died, so I never thought of having kids as a safeguard for later life. But then I never want kids anyway, so it's not something we discuss really.

[missedith01.livejournal.com]

I might be one for your theory. My Mom died February 2008 and I was pregnant for the first time by November. It was unplanned. But maybe my subconscious was at work. :-)

[marrog.livejournal.com]

But surely if your parent dies when you're a young adult it's more likely to have been unexpected, and so the parent in question never actually needed taking care of, in contrast to when they do live longer, since a parent who lives long enough to need taking care of is likely to hit those dependent years, if anything, after your childbearing years were over. If my mother had lived another twenty or thirty years she might have needed taking care of but I'd probably already be past childbearing age.

Surely it's more likely that if your parent(s) are still alive you're going to feel an urge to have children because there's the pressure from the living relative to have descendants, and kiddies to play with, and if they died when you were quite young you'd be less likely to want to put a kid through that, furthermore your lack of a parent will stop you thinking about parenting at all, really? I mean, I, effectively, now, have no biological parent at all. So why would I even think to have a kid, whereas otherwise if my mother was there to remind me of that relationship and bond I'm more likely to think of it?

The only thing I can think of is that losing a parent (or presumably any other relative you feel that close to, I don't know), I think, makes you feel instantaneously a whole lot older, right away, it's like a switch flipping. I guess that could set your biological clock ticking? Also perhaps the sudden sensation of world-weariness might be mistaken for a new-found maturity, making you think you're ready now?

[marrog.livejournal.com]

Hm, that's more in reply to Andy than you. Whatev.

[andrewducker]

But surely if your parent dies when you're a young adult it's more likely to have been unexpected

Depends on a whole variety of things, life lifespan, when your parents had kids, etc. Part of this was triggered by a friend's father having a stroke and needing to be looked after, part of it by my awareness of my own parents getting older, part of it by another friend's parents getting to that stage too. Neither of the two friends are that old yet, and neither of them have kids. But you're right - it would definitely be different for people whose parents had them at 18 rather than 35.

cause there's the pressure from the living relative to have descendants
I don't know anyone who had kids to make their parents happy. At least, not so far as I know. There's the legendary pressure you get, but I don't know anyone who succumbed to it. I do know people who had kids because they were getting older and became more aware of their own mortality.

The only thing I can think of is that losing a parent (or presumably any other relative you feel that close to, I don't know), I think, makes you feel instantaneously a whole lot older, right away, it's like a switch flipping. I guess that could set your biological clock ticking?

Exactly!

[andrewducker]

Ack - and just to say, this post wasn't inspired by you, and I'm having such a stupid day that my brain completely failed to connect it to you until after I'd made the post. Sorry, I am being very dense.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

Perhaps there isn't a direct pressure, but I'm sure a lot of people feel a subliminal pressure to conform. I wasn't suggesting so much that you would to please your parent, more that you were if anything less likely to think of it in their absence.

I didn't assume it had anything to do with me. I doubt I've shown any signs of suddenly wanting children.

[andrewducker]

Well, you have picked up a kitten :-<>

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Just to pick up on one point. I would certainly never assume that any kids would look after me in my old age. They might be like me, after all. I always have had a resentment the fact that if you do not want dependents, you can choose to not have children - but you don't choose not to have parents. Who may become dependent. It seems horribly unfair and an asymmetrical skew of power. But I am strange, I think

Oh well, my family tend to drop dead suddenly... and the one that hasn't is still fit an independent at 90.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Hmm, not in my experience - my mother died when my first kid was a baby, and I definitely think I wanted to "get her back" through my children, to perpetuate her genes and what she taught me. Very specifically, very personally, I wanted to have her grandchildren.

Obviously, it didn't influence my having the first one, but my drive to have the second, for sure, and the vague desire (never to be fulfilled) that I have for more, all that has a lot to do with losing my mum.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Interested to note that most people seem to think it would be because of wanting to have a child to take care of you when you're old. IME, no, it's about wanting a child to carry on your family when you seem to be losing it.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

I guess maybe then that on the basis of this small data set, the death of a parent is personal and different for everyone, and that your reaction in terms of your own desire to reproduce has more to do with your own psyche than some causal relationship?

[andrewducker]

Well, this data set is clearly too small to get anything useful out of. Hence me not even bothering with a poll :->

[redshira.livejournal.com]

Sort of relevant: my mum has always said she decided she wanted to have finished having kids by the time she was 30, as she was a late baby (she did indeed have all three of us by age 30). She lost her dad when she was 29 and her mum when she was 32, and has always advised us that if we're planning on having kids it's best to have them before 30, if possible.

[thadrin.livejournal.com]

My Dad died when I was 18 after a long illness.
My son was born when I was 30.

Make of that what you will.