What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!

[andrewducker]

Inspired by hfnuala's post - I noticed a few months ago that my argument style was changing - particularly who I was willing to spend time arguing with.

When I spent more time on small communities it felt more worthwhile trying to solve disagreements with people. When I'm sharing the internets with a few billion other people it seems a tad wasteful to spend my time trying to convert them all to Duckerism.

Hence the following poll, where I've moved from (1) to somewhere between (2) and (4) depending on the subject. I still find I get a fair bit out of some disagreements - if nothing else the 120-odd comments on lizzie_and_ari's journal recently helped me get my own feelings straight in my head and exposed me to differing ones.

[Poll #1333723]

Oh, and obviously this will vary for others too - I am sure that there are _some_ people you know IRL that you shy away from arguing with, I'm more thinking of general tendencies.

Comments

[poisonduk.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I find that you deliberately try to provoke discussion via your own polls - not necessarily arguement but you always leave the options very rigid. For example you sate you're somwhere between 2 and 4, as I would also find myself, but since I can only select one option and you don't leave open options I have to commit to 3.

I'm not being contentious, just commenting that you use polls to generate arguements/discussions of your own, which is actually a positive thing and part of the reason I love you as a friend.

[robhu.livejournal.com]

[andrewducker]

I'm happy to generate them - and I'm usually happy to argue _here_ - because the denizens of this place count largely as part of group 3, with a fair chunk of group 4.

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

Hmm how does one convert to Duckerism? At least you have the right look... :-)

[sttatus-quo.livejournal.com]

I saved this also and almost put it up as a reply. :)

Ultimately I have to decide if it looks like an argument that I have a chance of having my point heard about. There are some people who are so firmly entrenched on an issue that it's just not worth the ammo and chances are they're my friend for a host of other reasons.

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

Closest to option 1, but it varies. I tend to argue if I think someone is capable of understanding my point of view and has failed to see some of the data. I don't really worry about who it is I'm arguing with and whether I know them, and with strangers they tend to be more dismissive of my arguments, I think.

[poisonduk.livejournal.com]

Oh he has that on a T-Shirt!! Because he has the most awesome girlfriend in the world ever who also appreciates Andy's approach to arguement and fixing the world! Hello is_not_well

[robhu.livejournal.com]

Because he has the most awesome girlfriend in the world ever
Sounds like you're trying to steal her...

These are your commandments

[andrewducker]

1) Read the words of The Ducker.
2) Read a bunch of other words as well.
3) Make up your own damn mind.
4) Tell The Ducker what things he got wrong, providing examples as necessary.
5) Pub!

[poisonduk.livejournal.com]

except I am a woman also! Julie is the perfect girlfriend for Andy and they are a couple who are just destined to be together and I can't but fail to smile when I'm in their company as their love shines through and engulfs everyone who comes in contact! Jeeez I sound so sad now!!!

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

I find I generally argue away quite happily, but HATE when a good argument turns personal, and will leave it then. Or when my points are being ignored, or we're going round in circles.

[kurosau.livejournal.com]

I didn't want to answer the poll because I'm lazy and because I'm coming at it from a different perspective than what your premise seems to offer.

Solving disagreements or convincing people of my points are secondary to me when I'm arguing online. For my sake, it's about the act of argument itself, and the expression it allows me.

And I still think you're wrong. That ad campaign was stated in an offensive manner, in the same manner as I intend to offend the bull when I go up and poke him with a stick. It's that funny 'haha' sort of cleverness wherein I say something pithy that gets everyone in the room to laugh at my joke at the expense of the geek in the corner.

Re: These are your commandments

[channelpenguin.livejournal.com]

:-) sounds reasonable...

[accordingly.livejournal.com]

I must clarify my answer! I put "anyone", but really I'm not an argumentative person in the slightest and generally shy away from confrontation of any sort- but if something does especially rile me then it doesn't matter to me who they are, I will challenge it. But that's kind of rare.

[martling.livejournal.com]

I pretty much apply this IRL, too. Unless I have a really good personal reason to care, I tend to avoid anything that falls across the line from "constructive discussion" to "argument".

[andrewducker]

I dont mind somewhat heated debate, especially with people I know reasonably well.

[sneerpout.livejournal.com]

I used to hover around option one many years ago, but am now in the "nobody at all" camp. I will make exceptions for people who pick fights with me in my own journal, but have no interest in arguing the toss with wrongheads on their territory. If they want to talk shite in their own journal, let them.

[marrog.livejournal.com]

except I am a woman also!

Never stopped me...

Re: These are your commandments

[marrog.livejournal.com]

Where's profit?

[marrog.livejournal.com]

I have been all of these, even the last one, depending on the day. Generally I'll wade in with anyone who doesn't appear to be a complete moron. Unless they're a lot smarter than me. I don't argue with people who're a lot smarter than me, even if they're wrong, because I know they'll just tie me in knots and I'll get pissed off. A little bit smarter than me is a nice challenge, hence most of my friends.

Sometimes I'll even argue with someone who's a complete moron if I know them in real life and if I don't say something it'll burst out in public. But I'm slowly trying to learn to get over arguing with anyone who can't string a coherent, logical debate together, even if I know them, because I only regret it later when I do.

[blackmanxy.livejournal.com]

Almost no one. The determining factor in whether or not I will argue with someone is never how well I know them.

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

IAWTC.

[martling.livejournal.com]

Yeah, ditto. But I don't think of that as crossing the line into argument, really. If everyone involved is - hmm, how to put this - comfortable? in good humour? with the debate happening, then it's a constructive/learning thing rather than an outright argument.

In fact, the key problem with doing the same over the internet is the difficulty of telling whether that's really the case.

[poisonduk.livejournal.com]

Sigh, I should have known if there was trouble to be had it would have been from you!! I considered typing I'm a hetreosexual woman but thought you'd jump on that statement and try to convince me otherwise or that I could be turned/ tempted/ convinced! It was a knee jerk reaction as I think Julie rocks and Andy and Julie rock together and ANY woman who goes to the effort Julie did to get that cartoon put on a T-shirt especially for Andy the Geeky T-shirt Freak deserved recognition for her awesomeness.

Now I'm off to lust over Buffy....

Re: These are your commandments

[andrewducker]

I'm a non-prophet organistion.

[andrewducker]

Totally agree - which is one reason I prefer to argue with friends.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. I've recently noticed I've been changing, as I've realised I simply don't have time. I instinctively want to reply to everything. I've recently been trying to avoid making responses where I think the response is obvious -- if it's obvious to everyone reading, there's no need. Also when I think I've had an argument before and it won't add anything new. And for that matter, avoiding fairly meaningless "hey, a similar thing happened to me once. it was similar" responses. OTOH, if I feel I may actually get somewhere, I still like to try (which may or may not be correlated with how well I know someone).

[the-locster.livejournal.com]

I mostly only 'friend' people who appear to have a similar mindset to me - with some exception for variety. I certainly wouldn't try and argue with someone who was strongly religious about pretty much anything, on the basis that their starting point (mindset) is so different from mine. And y different I mean wrong :)

[laserboy.livejournal.com]

I'll chat about and discuss things with anyone who's civil, but I've got better things to be doing with my time than arguing on the internet.

[pickwick.livejournal.com]

For me it's the location rather than the people, usually - I argue on Comment Is Free, Digital Spy and Liberal Conspiracy, but not on Facebook or on here, in general.