As I've said before, any highlighting of racial colour is automatic discrimination in my book. The way to deal with the race card is to make it go away by making it a non-issue.
The red, white and blue colour of the Union Jack have nothing to do with racial colour or stereotyping. By introducing black as the fourth colour, and directly linking it with the UKs 'multi-cultural' diversity, this introduces the idea of race where it has previously never been thought of. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Turner has a hidden agenda, and is trying to stir up racial hatred in the UK. I think it's nothing short of disgraceful.
This isn't flag-flying patriotism, BTW. I don't give a shit about the colours of the flag - turn it turquoise, green and orange for all I care. But do not treat it as 'art', or a 'statement', or a 'declaration'. Do not add black to it, and mention it as being directly linked to race, or 'multi'-cultural' backgrounds.
I for one, would like to hear the opinion of Denise Lewis (her picture is used by the BBC with the article pertaining to this) and other prominent non-white people of the UK community. Does anyone who would be indicated as being part of the UKs new-found multi-culturalism actually want this? Have they been asked?
I think it's shit-stirring of the worst kind, where none was needed. Ive said it before, and I'll stick with it to my dying day - the way to beat the stupid, the discriminatory, the intolerant, is to ignore them. Treat anyone and everyone, regardless of background, equal, and don't empower groups like the BNP any more than they already are.
Exactly my point - the flag has NOTHING to with race. At all. To introduce race as a topic connected with the flag is, at best, misguided, and at worst, something far more sinister. I think it's things like this that keep the race issue alive and kicking in the UK, when in fact, if all the PC do-gooders just forgot about it for a few decades, it would be a much smaller problem than it currently is. The longer they bang the drum about it, the longer groups like the BNP and those that sympathise towards their tendencies will have ammunition for their empty rhetoric.
I think if ministers think it's a good idea to change the flag, then they should have a competition open to every primary school kid in the country, and the best picture as voted for by various notaries in the UK wins. Why, if we want to represent the UK going into the 21st century, is adding black to the flag the best way to do this? Why not start again?
On another note: why spend money changing something that don't need changing (*cough* Consignia *cough*) when there are plenty of more worthwhile things the money could be spent on? This kind of thing is really quite expensive.
I must say I had an interesting revelation while walking along Bloomsbury in London.
I was walking on group where my ancestors belonged. Not just the Richards who showed up in the 1700s or the Chislet's and Haultain's who showed up earlier, but this was where those people had some from. (Okay, one branch is German, but I'm leaving them out.)
My city is not exactly brimming over with First Nation's people and I don't know a lot, but it has been so firmly imprinted on me that I was not here first, there were others before me who were treated badly in the past and who should be respected and remembered that it stunned me to *not* be part of an invading force, no matter how far removed.
I thank England for that. It is something I must remember. It also made me giggle at the Bill Reid totem pole in the British Museum (I can't get AWAY from poles. Grin.) And I believe I have a better appreciation for the friendship pole that was recently installed near my workplace at the university.
Cheers,
Katja, who seems to be good at writing long "comments"
No sarcasm, here, I honestly think that flags should just be bar-coded and left at that. I've never understood or been comfortable with all the silly general symbolism. As if you can represent all the people in a country or a country with these images. Just barcode it and let the flag be an impersonal identifying label so each person can represent themself and, in turn, represent the country for whatever it is today.
Good point. I think it would make for an interesting game, as it would be hard to tell one team from another with barcodes all being so similar . . . I might actually become a fan, if that were to happen.
But, I don't think I'd be so much for it as I am for making national ensigns barcoded -- the reason is that the flag of a nation is supposed to represent the nationa -- a diverse collection of people and places with different goals and ideals working together. Sports teams, on the other hand, are groups of individuals working toward the same goal; the uniform is not so much to represent them as it is to identify team mates from opponants. The uniforms serve a more particular purpose, but a notably less significant one, on a larger scale. Make states/territories barcoded, too. Bar code license plates -- you want to know where the guy in front of you is from? Just trigger the barcode reader embedded in your car's grill; or, hell, why not put a reader in your watch?
The part of me thats British to the core and gets all misty eyed when thinking of Trafalgar, Rourkes Drift and other great moments of our history, really wants to huff and puff about this.
But sadly I find it too silly to get worked up over :o)
I actually think that's asthetically pleasing, but other than that I don't see the point. Seems like it'd just create a lot of paperwork and silliness.
Especially since the creation of the flag preceded the racism, I thought. I mean, I don't know when the flag was created, but the racism as we know it today really does stem from the colonisation and slavery of the 1800's, I'd think the flag existed long before that.
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The red, white and blue colour of the Union Jack have nothing to do with racial colour or stereotyping. By introducing black as the fourth colour, and directly linking it with the UKs 'multi-cultural' diversity, this introduces the idea of race where it has previously never been thought of. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Turner has a hidden agenda, and is trying to stir up racial hatred in the UK. I think it's nothing short of disgraceful.
This isn't flag-flying patriotism, BTW. I don't give a shit about the colours of the flag - turn it turquoise, green and orange for all I care. But do not treat it as 'art', or a 'statement', or a 'declaration'. Do not add black to it, and mention it as being directly linked to race, or 'multi'-cultural' backgrounds.
I for one, would like to hear the opinion of Denise Lewis (her picture is used by the BBC with the article pertaining to this) and other prominent non-white people of the UK community. Does anyone who would be indicated as being part of the UKs new-found multi-culturalism actually want this? Have they been asked?
I think it's shit-stirring of the worst kind, where none was needed. Ive said it before, and I'll stick with it to my dying day - the way to beat the stupid, the discriminatory, the intolerant, is to ignore them. Treat anyone and everyone, regardless of background, equal, and don't empower groups like the BNP any more than they already are.
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Unlikely, this year.
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Heh. My response... do you see any BLUE people running around the UK? Or bright RED? Uh-huh.
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I think if ministers think it's a good idea to change the flag, then they should have a competition open to every primary school kid in the country, and the best picture as voted for by various notaries in the UK wins. Why, if we want to represent the UK going into the 21st century, is adding black to the flag the best way to do this? Why not start again?
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but as my German diving instructor said...
"arh, only zee English"
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About the UK
I was walking on group where my ancestors belonged. Not just the Richards who showed up in the 1700s or the Chislet's and Haultain's who showed up earlier, but this was where those people had some from. (Okay, one branch is German, but I'm leaving them out.)
My city is not exactly brimming over with First Nation's people and I don't know a lot, but it has been so firmly imprinted on me that I was not here first, there were others before me who were treated badly in the past and who should be respected and remembered that it stunned me to *not* be part of an invading force, no matter how far removed.
I thank England for that. It is something I must remember. It also made me giggle at the Bill Reid totem pole in the British Museum (I can't get AWAY from poles. Grin.) And I believe I have a better appreciation for the friendship pole that was recently installed near my workplace at the university.
Cheers,
Katja, who seems to be good at writing long "comments"
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I'm not a football person, but it seems that the strip is offtern followed in the same way some follow the flag??
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But, I don't think I'd be so much for it as I am for making national ensigns barcoded -- the reason is that the flag of a nation is supposed to represent the nationa -- a diverse collection of people and places with different goals and ideals working together. Sports teams, on the other hand, are groups of individuals working toward the same goal; the uniform is not so much to represent them as it is to identify team mates from opponants. The uniforms serve a more particular purpose, but a notably less significant one, on a larger scale. Make states/territories barcoded, too. Bar code license plates -- you want to know where the guy in front of you is from? Just trigger the barcode reader embedded in your car's grill; or, hell, why not put a reader in your watch?
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But sadly I find it too silly to get worked up over :o)
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Especially since the creation of the flag preceded the racism, I thought. I mean, I don't know when the flag was created, but the racism as we know it today really does stem from the colonisation and slavery of the 1800's, I'd think the flag existed long before that.