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The first one definitely is (in my opinion) - but I'm really not sure about numbers 2 and 3. You're taking a sex act largely performed by gay men and using it as a swearword/negative term - which sounds like it _should_ be homophobic. But I've never heard anyone refer to it as such. Plus, of course, pretty much all kinds of sexual words are used for swearing, which evens the scales somewhat.
Oh, and for some reason "Bugger" is vastly less offensive than "Fuck" in the UK. Never really understood that one...
Oh, and for some reason "Bugger" is vastly less offensive than "Fuck" in the UK. Never really understood that one...
Edited 2009-07-29 08:22 (UTC)
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regarding Bugger, you're getting into etymology of it being a very old word, and why very old words (which are Anglo Saxon? I think? Someone else will know) aren't allowed because the Normans didn't like them. Bummer, if I recall correctly, is an American term and nothing at all to do with Buggery.
Gay in that context is just homophobic.
Gay in that context is just homophobic.
AND ANOTHER THING why are you automatically associating anal sex with homosexuality? Don't the filthy breeders do it too?
Because the only time people get referred to as buggers or bummers meaning anything sexual is when it means "gay man". The cultural association is definitely gay.
That said, I don't want my consciousness raised on this one as I love the word "bugger" so much.
That said, I don't want my consciousness raised on this one as I love the word "bugger" so much.
It's quite apt reading this so soon after your aspergers post that talked about intention.
At no point would I intend any use of those terms to be homophobic, in the same way that saying "fuck" isn't supposed to associate an event with sex (especially since I'll usually shout the f-word out when I've hurt myself) ;)
At no point would I intend any use of those terms to be homophobic, in the same way that saying "fuck" isn't supposed to associate an event with sex (especially since I'll usually shout the f-word out when I've hurt myself) ;)
I've never read "bummer" in that context. How about "a bum deal"? I thought it was pretty much the same as shouting "arse" - sure the buttocks/anus are implicated but there's no sexual reference.
I'm not filling in the poll because I'm undecided on it all. I think all of them, even "that's so gay" have become such common parlance that the possibly homophobic intent is not in the minds of most people who use them, but I'm not sure that's a good excuse. I avoid "gay" in that way, just don't tend to say "bummer" at all, and have been known to say "bugger" when things go pear shaped.
I'm not filling in the poll because I'm undecided on it all. I think all of them, even "that's so gay" have become such common parlance that the possibly homophobic intent is not in the minds of most people who use them, but I'm not sure that's a good excuse. I avoid "gay" in that way, just don't tend to say "bummer" at all, and have been known to say "bugger" when things go pear shaped.
I'm not sure if it's different in the UK, but I don't believe the etymology of bummer has anything to do with anal sex, someone's butt, or homosexual behavior. There are all sorts of explanations for where it comes from, but what I'm most familiar is the idea that you get bummed out, it's a bummer. That it has something to do with that beaten down and blah, bad experience kinda thing you could associate with bums and the like.
I don't want my consciousness raised on this one
me too
me too
I was completely unaware of any relationship between the common usages of the word 'bummer' and the use of the word 'bum' as a verb.
[Scene: 465 Archway Road. JH-R is relating tale of an injury to World's Gayest Flatmate]
JHR: "... and it hurt like buggery."
WGF: "Well, if you've got a half-hour, you could find out for yourself..."
JHR: (Goldfish impressions)
JHR: "... and it hurt like buggery."
WGF: "Well, if you've got a half-hour, you could find out for yourself..."
JHR: (Goldfish impressions)
Yeah - looks like it's different in America - where it's from "bum" which is from "to loaf" in German - referring to people begging for money.
I suspect we picked up "That's a bummer" from there, but some part of the UK (at least) also use it as slang for a gay person.
I suspect we picked up "That's a bummer" from there, but some part of the UK (at least) also use it as slang for a gay person.
Common in the playground where I were a lad.
Yup - when the Normans took over the Saxon language was only used by serfs, and thus any words in it are automatically more offensive than ones in French.
And "Bummer" was definitely slang for "gay man" in the playground when I was a kid.
And "Bummer" was definitely slang for "gay man" in the playground when I was a kid.
Aye, I call Will a "bummer" all the time, but my mind very clearly relates that as a different word to when someone says "that's a bummer" as one is from arse, and the other is from hobos in America.
I once got the silent treatment for a long, long time because I referred to someone as "a cracker" This made me an abhorrent racist. Took me f*cking ages to work out why, and apologise...
I once got the silent treatment for a long, long time because I referred to someone as "a cracker" This made me an abhorrent racist. Took me f*cking ages to work out why, and apologise...
In the US at least, "bugger off" is simultaneously a Britishism and also very much related to gay sex. OTOH, it never occurred to me that bummer had any such connotation - I assumed it was like "bum deal", and came into common use when the term bum was commonly used to refer to homeless people.
Then again, I was also in my late 20s when I figured out that "to welsh on a bet" was anti-Welsh (a fact made more difficult, because in much (perhaps most) of the US, it's pronounced "Welch".
Then again, I was also in my late 20s when I figured out that "to welsh on a bet" was anti-Welsh (a fact made more difficult, because in much (perhaps most) of the US, it's pronounced "Welch".
Yeah, I've always associated it with being "a bit crap", or as others have said "a bum deal".
Insults rarely make much sense, to read into something which is simply an exclamation really doesn't work out. If I was to shout out "HRRRFFFFRRR" when I was angry then I'm sure someone could find meaning in there.
Insults rarely make much sense, to read into something which is simply an exclamation really doesn't work out. If I was to shout out "HRRRFFFFRRR" when I was angry then I'm sure someone could find meaning in there.
I think your playground was unusual in this respect.
Well, at least two dictionaries have it down as British slang...
Tell me why too? Cracker seems fine to me...
Nope, went on in mine too, at opposite sides of the country.
It's offensive in American English, I think my friend thought (incorrectly) it was a term from the slave trade and so as offensive as N-gger.
oh I see! Christ... in my language it means pretty!
I think there is a difference between 'homophobic' per se, and inappropriate/potentially alienating or perpetuating negativity. Y/Y?
well yes, it's technically Yorkshire dialect for a good thing, as in "Cracking cheese Grommit!"
Which just goes to show.. somethinig.. about language and cultures. Paky shop is the slang term for corner shops somewhere like New England (? I think?), and most people there are completely unaware of any racial connections with the word. I can't find an internet link to this, as I just did a google and the results were vastly unpleasant.
Which just goes to show.. somethinig.. about language and cultures. Paky shop is the slang term for corner shops somewhere like New England (? I think?), and most people there are completely unaware of any racial connections with the word. I can't find an internet link to this, as I just did a google and the results were vastly unpleasant.
It's local dialect in Sunderland too. An unfortunately very racist local dialect :(
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