You remember what now?

[andrewducker]

Here is a funny-because-it's-true piece on memory, perception and free will. It's well worth a read, just to remind yourself how things _really_ work :->

Comments

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

i'm pretty sure we can override the hormones he's talking about RE free will though

[andrewducker]

You can (sometimes, somewhat, for a bit) override hormones. Dealing with the electrical currents is a tad trickier :->

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

eating and other things i presume he's talking about as i'm pretty sure my brain's currents have no say about which uni book i read first or something like that.

whether i eat now or later, sleep now or later etc. then yes.

[andrewducker]

It's more that what we think are conscious decisions are usually based on a whole bunch of unconscious stuff that we're not aware of. Brain scans and EEGs have generally shown that we've actually started to act a good tenth of a second before we become aware of what our decision is/was.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

but isn't that just the
brain makes decision - then transfers it into communicable thought form?

ie - we have actually made the decision consciously but tthen need to transfer these signals into thoughts

[andrewducker]

Depends what you mean by "we" :->

If you mean "the lump of meat in our heads" then yes. But that would then include the hormones, etc.

If you mean "our conscious mind" then no.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

If you mean "our conscious mind" then no.
how not?

we say to the mind that we need decision
the mind decides
tells us.

ie the mind has still made the decision based on our likes/preferences etc.

and then we can override it.

ie i want to eat now
but i shouldn't eat now because i'm having a big tea later

[andrewducker]

And your subconscious has taken your conscious mind's preferences into account before making its decision :->

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

yes, i think so. but i don't think this is any great trickery. i think it's simply the way brains work. you made a choice based on previous assumptions/feelings etc. you can override it with a more logical choice if you wish... ie i will eat later not now. but mostly you are happy with the original choice.

i just don't get the conspiracy he's making it out to be?

[andrewducker]

Most people seem to think that their conscious minds actually make the decisions as to what to do. They seem barely aware that they have subconscious minds at all.

And it's an attitude which leads people to blame others for having weak self-control, or bad behaviour, which is really down to drives and decision-making processes which are really hard to deal with.

If you treat yourself like an army, where a command issued from above is slavishly, then you're in for a nasty shock. Treating yourself like a pet, to be trained into doing the right things, and you'll be much more successful and happier.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

exactly! it's all about training your mind to think in certain ways. i just didn't realise people didn't know that hehe

[drplokta]

This may be a bad analogy, because if you treat an actual army as somewhere where a command issued from above is slavishly obeyed, you're also in for a nasty shock.

[pennski.livejournal.com]

Now you see, this is what last night's Horizon programme should have been addressing and wasn't.

In other news, the Exploratorium is staffed by really cool people like Pat Murphy and Ellen Klages - so I'm not surprised it's a really cool place.