You remember what now?

[andrewducker]

Here is a funny-because-it's-true piece on memory, perception and free will. It's well worth a read, just to remind yourself how things _really_ work :->

Comments

[yalovetz]

I've been to the Exploratorium in San Francisco and it is much fun. I've also tried out an exhibit like the one the author refers to that makes you think the bronze hand is actually yours (though the one I tried was in the V&A). The basic set up is that you put your hand into a slot underneath the bronze hand. Then you get someone else to simultaneously stroke your forefinger (out of sight) and the forefinger of the bronze hand (in sight). Then your brain pairs up tactile sensation and visual data to tell you that yes, that bronze hand being stroked really is your hand, yes, the one being stroked. Weird. But cool.

[lizzie-and-ari.livejournal.com]

NIce article. Memory is freaky. I have a very clear memory of riding my red tricycle (oddly) into a wire type fence covered in plants at my brother's birthday party. I fell off it and had to go to hospital to have stitches in my head.

This is not what happened. We were having dinner at home in an ordinary fashion and I was rocking on my chair and cracked my head on the radiator. This I do not remember. I do, however, believe my mother.

Wtf?

Hope you're having a spiffing day.

L xxx

[andrewducker]

My friend George tells the gaming story of how his character was stuck in a basement, facing an army of rat-men, and my character ran away, leaving him stuck there alone, chucking down fireballs that were hitting both him and the rat-men.

It's an amusing story.

And it's true.

Except it wasn't him that was there. It occurred a good couple of years before he arrived at Uni, and it was a character played by my other friend Neil that it happened to.

And he's told the story _in front of me_. Which means he's probably told it so many times that he's forgotten it never actually happened to him...

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

i'm pretty sure we can override the hormones he's talking about RE free will though

[andrewducker]

You can (sometimes, somewhat, for a bit) override hormones. Dealing with the electrical currents is a tad trickier :->

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

eating and other things i presume he's talking about as i'm pretty sure my brain's currents have no say about which uni book i read first or something like that.

whether i eat now or later, sleep now or later etc. then yes.

[andrewducker]

It's more that what we think are conscious decisions are usually based on a whole bunch of unconscious stuff that we're not aware of. Brain scans and EEGs have generally shown that we've actually started to act a good tenth of a second before we become aware of what our decision is/was.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

but isn't that just the
brain makes decision - then transfers it into communicable thought form?

ie - we have actually made the decision consciously but tthen need to transfer these signals into thoughts

[andrewducker]

Depends what you mean by "we" :->

If you mean "the lump of meat in our heads" then yes. But that would then include the hormones, etc.

If you mean "our conscious mind" then no.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

If you mean "our conscious mind" then no.
how not?

we say to the mind that we need decision
the mind decides
tells us.

ie the mind has still made the decision based on our likes/preferences etc.

and then we can override it.

ie i want to eat now
but i shouldn't eat now because i'm having a big tea later

[andrewducker]

And your subconscious has taken your conscious mind's preferences into account before making its decision :->

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

yes, i think so. but i don't think this is any great trickery. i think it's simply the way brains work. you made a choice based on previous assumptions/feelings etc. you can override it with a more logical choice if you wish... ie i will eat later not now. but mostly you are happy with the original choice.

i just don't get the conspiracy he's making it out to be?

[andrewducker]

Most people seem to think that their conscious minds actually make the decisions as to what to do. They seem barely aware that they have subconscious minds at all.

And it's an attitude which leads people to blame others for having weak self-control, or bad behaviour, which is really down to drives and decision-making processes which are really hard to deal with.

If you treat yourself like an army, where a command issued from above is slavishly, then you're in for a nasty shock. Treating yourself like a pet, to be trained into doing the right things, and you'll be much more successful and happier.

[likeneontubing.livejournal.com]

exactly! it's all about training your mind to think in certain ways. i just didn't realise people didn't know that hehe

[drplokta]

This may be a bad analogy, because if you treat an actual army as somewhere where a command issued from above is slavishly obeyed, you're also in for a nasty shock.

[pennski.livejournal.com]

Now you see, this is what last night's Horizon programme should have been addressing and wasn't.

In other news, the Exploratorium is staffed by really cool people like Pat Murphy and Ellen Klages - so I'm not surprised it's a really cool place.