Corner Cases Example

[andrewducker]

Here's a perfect one:
1)German employment law states that if you've been unemployed for over a year then you must take any job offered to you.
2)In a bid to cut down on the trade in women and other mistreatment of prostitutes, Germany has legalised brothels.

Can you guess what the end result of this is?

Read about it here.

I'm looking forward to reading your responses to this one :->

Comments

[andrewducker]

Which works out at the same thing:

"Due to economic conditions you must now either have sex with strangers or starve. Your choice."

Not really a choice I'd be happy making people make.

[cruft.livejournal.com]

Life is hard.

[andrewducker]

And the whole point of society (outside of America, anyway) is to make it less so.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

It's a question of priorities. I can think of approximately 100 things that are better uses of our limited resources than saving poor blushing virgins from the evils of working in the sex industry.

[ashley-y.livejournal.com]

I can't even think of one.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

So saving people from dying is less important than saving them from having to work as prostitutes?

[ashley-y.livejournal.com]

Per use of resource, I think yes.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

Even though -- pulling numbers out of my ass -- 10 people could be given proper health insurance for what it costs to support 1 person on a living wage for a year?

[ashley-y.livejournal.com]

I do believe Germany already has universal healthcare.

[wolflady26.livejournal.com]

And that random dig is relevant... how?

[andrewducker]

It's a dig at how difficult it is in America to get unemployment benefit compared to the rest of the civilised world.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

How about,
"You'd better do boring, mind-crushing repetitive tasks all day or starve"
or
"You'd better give up any and all opportunity to realize your human potential or starve"
or
"You'd better work in conditions that expose you to dangerous, hazardous chemicals or starve"
or
"You'd better work in conditions that expose you to dangerous, hazardous coworkers or starve"

Are these better propositions than the one you cite?

[andrewducker]

Well, in reasonably progressive societies we have laws about working in hazardous situations.

And people _do_ seem to feel differently about sex than they do about other things. Otherwise 'rape' would just be 'invasion of personal space' or 'assault'.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it makes me cruel and cold-hearted, but I don't see why my tax dollars should go toward supporting those who have special feelings that supposedly prevent them from doing useful work, rather than toward, say, building houses for homeless people or teaching kids.

[andrewducker]

I'm not saying it's simple - just that I believe most people would think it unreasonable to push people into prostitution. And that possibly it might cause mental damage to many people, making the drain on society worse, not better.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

"Most people would think it unreasonable" is not, on its own, an argument in favor of anything. And most jobs cause mental damage to people. This isn't an argument about social welfare, really, it's about trying desperately to preserve the idea that women are delicate flowers in need of protection from sex.

[andrewducker]

So you're saying that rape shouldn't be a separate crime from assault?

And 'most people would think it unreasonable" is how democracy works.

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

Occasionally, wrong decisions are made in democracies.

I think rape should be a separate crime from assault, but only for the same reason that hate crimes are considered distinct from other crimes: assault is a crime of violence against one person, rape is a crime intended to make all women feel less safe. (Rape committed against men should, without extenuating circumstances, be considered to be the same as assault.)

[robhu.livejournal.com]

How is rape inteded to make all women feel less safe? At least any more than violence can be intended to make all women feel less safe.

I would have thought that the main reason for rape is that a person wants to force a sexual act with another person for the perpetrators own gratification.

[andrewducker]

It's "intended to make all women feel less safe"? Every time it's committed that's what it's intended to do? Really, I had no idea.

[robhu.livejournal.com]

Surely it's more that for many women sex is a personal/private thing of which access should be (is?) protected by their basic human rights.

Perhaps most importantly though a vast majority of women (and men) find this law (or this consequence) abhorrent and so it'll probably get changed.

If 95% of people thought that forcing them to work for a defence contractor was abhorrent I'm sure they'd ban that as well, laws work (or should work) to create the kind of society that the majority want (well, that is one aspect of what laws are for - I am of course leaving out aspects that prevent mob rule etc).

[catamorphism.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm obligated to agree with a decision just because a majority of the population supports that decision.

[robhu.livejournal.com]

Who said you were?

However no one should be able to force their sexual beliefs on other people. I think that's the problem here, the women (generally speaking) don't want to have to be prostitutes yet legally they are forced to (or they lose their income / food / ability to survive).

[rainstorm.livejournal.com]

You are if you live in a democratic country.

[nirikina.livejournal.com]

useful work

Useful? It's the sex industry! The so-called pleasure industry. If there's a shortage of builders to build houses or farmers to grow crops or raise cattle etc then by all means those on benefits should be expected to do these jobs rather than sponge off society. But you can't possibly compare those sorts of jobs to forcing someone to work in the sex industry.

How would you feel if you were in this situation? Would you not mind being used for sex for the pleasure of other men and women? With no disregard for your feelings? How about being used for drug testing or other experiments?