andrewducker: (Default)
andrewducker ([personal profile] andrewducker) wrote2025-11-20 12:00 pm
channelpenguin: (Default)

10

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I didnt need to age out of it. I have never given that sort of fuck. Yes, I got challenged and I often said things like "if I were a man, nobody would blink at this".

What I DID age INTO is actually MORE empathy, kindness and caring - the real and non-toxic kind.

I am truly glad that i never lived the horrible-sounding people-pleasing overthinking existence described in this article - is it truly "the norm"? Is it genuinely typical? I am really asking because I don't think I have lived, worked or socialised with women like that - maybe that is a selection bias on my part :-)
channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 01:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspect I have not as much sympathy as I possibly should. My instinctive reaction is "well, being a people-pleaser is a choice, you don't HAVE to do it. maybe you think it is easier ... but it seems not, at least not long term.

Hmm, maybe we are back to the known genetic variants in how socially conformant one tends to be.
bens_dad: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] bens_dad 2025-11-20 02:49 pm (UTC)(link)
IIRC at Mum's (private, secondary, girls, boarding) school they were specifically taught to put themselves second. Foe example, at some meals they were not allowed to ask for anything; they could only offer to pass dishes and to server each other. It was supposed to make them more aware of the wants and needs of others.

Not sure how much it worked, because even in her thirties she was fighting for us, rather than putting up with the world. One of her school-mates was even pushier. Mum has said that she would have been even more of a feminist, but she had two sons.
nancylebov: (green leaves)

Re: 10

[personal profile] nancylebov 2025-11-21 12:24 pm (UTC)(link)
How was she at advocating for herself?
bens_dad: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] bens_dad 2025-11-26 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)
This is indeed the relevant question.

Once we had left home she was good, though whether going to uni taught her
or just gave her an opportunity to use it. Even now she is better than me.
I suspect she could and did advocate for herself as a young woman.

But the real point is how was she with us when we were growing up ? I wasn't
sufficiently aware of others to be able to answer, so I showed her the article and this discussion, but thinking back on the discussion she didn't answer it. I don't think she missed out on much for our sakes, though I think she enjoyed being a stay at home mum and we had a a comparatively privileged life and dad wasn't a demanding person so I don't think she had to choose between us and her very much.
She cared for Dad when he had dementia in his last few years; that was probably the time she put someone else first the most.