andrewducker: (Default)
andrewducker ([personal profile] andrewducker) wrote2025-11-20 12:00 pm
nancylebov: (green leaves)

[personal profile] nancylebov 2025-11-20 12:04 pm (UTC)(link)
10. I've seen some discussion that it's more of a cultural shift-- women not under pressure to be nice-- rather than life stage.
cmcmck: (Default)

[personal profile] cmcmck 2025-11-20 12:16 pm (UTC)(link)
7. And I know how it is feeling in this country too- we are discussing getting out seriously now.
channelpenguin: (Default)

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 01:23 pm (UTC)(link)
that is horrible to hear! Where were you thinking of going to? I imagine a decade ago, it was unimaginable that the UK would not be safe. I imagine it is a very difficult choice...
cmcmck: (Default)

[personal profile] cmcmck 2025-11-20 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Probably the republic of Ireland but he lived in France when young and I lived in Belgium so we are at least used to the idea.

I was unimaginable just a few months ago!
channelpenguin: (Default)

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 02:03 pm (UTC)(link)
how much confidence do you have that Ireland or France might remain safe/sane?
cmcmck: (Default)

[personal profile] cmcmck 2025-11-21 10:16 am (UTC)(link)
Ireland has improved its regulations recently but I'm not sure about France,
channelpenguin: (Default)

10

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I didnt need to age out of it. I have never given that sort of fuck. Yes, I got challenged and I often said things like "if I were a man, nobody would blink at this".

What I DID age INTO is actually MORE empathy, kindness and caring - the real and non-toxic kind.

I am truly glad that i never lived the horrible-sounding people-pleasing overthinking existence described in this article - is it truly "the norm"? Is it genuinely typical? I am really asking because I don't think I have lived, worked or socialised with women like that - maybe that is a selection bias on my part :-)
channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 01:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspect I have not as much sympathy as I possibly should. My instinctive reaction is "well, being a people-pleaser is a choice, you don't HAVE to do it. maybe you think it is easier ... but it seems not, at least not long term.

Hmm, maybe we are back to the known genetic variants in how socially conformant one tends to be.
bens_dad: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] bens_dad 2025-11-20 02:49 pm (UTC)(link)
IIRC at Mum's (private, secondary, girls, boarding) school they were specifically taught to put themselves second. Foe example, at some meals they were not allowed to ask for anything; they could only offer to pass dishes and to server each other. It was supposed to make them more aware of the wants and needs of others.

Not sure how much it worked, because even in her thirties she was fighting for us, rather than putting up with the world. One of her school-mates was even pushier. Mum has said that she would have been even more of a feminist, but she had two sons.
nancylebov: (green leaves)

Re: 10

[personal profile] nancylebov 2025-11-21 12:24 pm (UTC)(link)
How was she at advocating for herself?
bens_dad: (Default)

Re: 10

[personal profile] bens_dad 2025-11-26 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)
This is indeed the relevant question.

Once we had left home she was good, though whether going to uni taught her
or just gave her an opportunity to use it. Even now she is better than me.
I suspect she could and did advocate for herself as a young woman.

But the real point is how was she with us when we were growing up ? I wasn't
sufficiently aware of others to be able to answer, so I showed her the article and this discussion, but thinking back on the discussion she didn't answer it. I don't think she missed out on much for our sakes, though I think she enjoyed being a stay at home mum and we had a a comparatively privileged life and dad wasn't a demanding person so I don't think she had to choose between us and her very much.
She cared for Dad when he had dementia in his last few years; that was probably the time she put someone else first the most.
channelpenguin: (Default)

5.

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-11-20 12:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe the panic is overblown but I found this article of itself hypberbolic, defeatist and patronising.

It is entirely possible to eat very little processed food without cooking every day and without spending heaps of money (in general, I have always found it cheaper). I tend to batch cook. Once/twice a week. Soups, stews, oven full of various things all at once. I eat porridge made with fruit and nuts for breakfast. Usually I make a huge pot of that every 10 days too. I DO need a freezer and microwave though to pull this off properly.

I don't fret if I buy bread - but honestly, I lived years not eating bread very often because UK bread is crap. German bread is oK for my taste but more dense for sure.
mountainkiss: (Default)

[personal profile] mountainkiss 2025-11-20 01:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Interestingly I am becoming more and more sensitive to social cues and more of a harmoniser as I age, rather than the reverse.
mountainkiss: (Default)

[personal profile] mountainkiss 2025-11-20 02:53 pm (UTC)(link)

Most of it is a deliberate decision, but some of it is a consequence of one of my perimenopausal symptoms, which is increased sensitivity to and awareness of everything. It is super interesting to observe.

nancylebov: (green leaves)

[personal profile] nancylebov 2025-11-20 03:10 pm (UTC)(link)
2 is somewhat contradictory-- have boundaries to avoid people who are bad for you may not be consistent with being solidly connected to your family.

Maybe people are happier is they're with their family if their family is decent people.

I'm not sure how common really awful families are, but I suspect they're around 5%.
juan_gandhi: (Default)

[personal profile] juan_gandhi 2025-11-20 08:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! Lots of good stuff.

[personal profile] anna_wing 2025-11-21 10:48 am (UTC)(link)
10 is very culturally contextual. Most Southeast Asian societies are hierarchical along the age and social status axes more than the sex axis. So younger people of both sexes will be more deferential than older ones, and an older woman has more status in relation to men than a younger one unless the younger one is high-status ( either personal or familial).
simont: A picture of me in 2016 (Default)

[personal profile] simont 2025-11-21 12:06 pm (UTC)(link)
#6 (demon hunting):

The idea of "mustn't sing about demons even if you're clearly labelling them as the bad guys and singing about hunting and killing them" puts me in mind of the thing where WW2-themed videogames have trouble in Germany with the law against Nazi symbolism. Similarly in that context, you're not allowed to show pictures of the Bad Guys, even in a context where they're clearly marked as Bad and the player character is killing the hell out of them left and right.

(OK, not all WW2 videogames unconditionally take that attitude – some let you choose to play as the Axis. But as I understand it, the German law on the subject takes no account of whether that's the case or not.)

I don't know whether German lawmakers thought carefully about that kind of thing and decided to still forbid it. It would be easy to imagine that they might not have, and then once the law is made it has enormous inertia, both procedural (changing laws at all is hard work) and political (don't want to be seen as relaxing an uncompromising anti-Nazi law). But on the other hand they might have thought it through carefully and have a good reason!
simont: A picture of me in 2016 (Default)

[personal profile] simont 2025-11-21 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, it looks as if my knowledge was last updated before the big change in 2018!