channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-08-06 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Ok. I read something wrong then. I didn't pick up any greater short term harm than what we're currently doing with extractive capitalism and utter disregard for the environment (which is shit, of course).

I guess I missed a bit advocating direct murder as opposed to "merely" a callous disregard for collateral damage?
channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-08-06 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Ok, I guess if you believe that AGI will *inevitably* wipe out humanity.
calimac: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] calimac 2025-08-06 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
You brought up "the long term survival of humanity." That's what I'm contrasting this to, not environmental collapse. Which is a different problem, and if that happens it could stop AGI.

"advocating direct murder" - it's murder if the advocates actually want it to happen and are encouraging it. Which they are.

I'm not the one who believes that "AGI will inevitably wipe out humanity." The people described in the article are the ones who believe it. It's their beliefs and goals that are the issue here.
channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-08-07 04:20 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, it's always been clear that those views are not yours! I don't support any of these guys views, to make that also clear (I think humans should instead concentrate our time, energy and money on stopping and reversing environmental damage - at least in as far as it's possible at this stage.)

I did not, on a re-read of the article find mention of direct killing), but that's perhaps a niggle at this stage.

calimac: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] calimac 2025-08-07 04:38 am (UTC)(link)
You did write, "if you believe that AGI will 'inevitably' wipe out humanity," and it wasn't clear that "you" meant "a person" and not "me, calimac."

Second point: it's less than a niggle. If you (a person) take an action that you believe will result in the death of a human, and especially if you approve and encourage this result, then if the person does die as a result that is clearly murder. I suspect that even if they don't die, it's still attempted murder. (It doesn't have to be direct: setting up a Rube Goldberg or Heath Robinson contraption with the intention of killing somebody with it isn't "direct" but it's equally culpable.) The people being discussed in the post are not only advocating, but undertaking and promoting, actions which they believe will result in the imminent extinction of the human race. To call this anything less than a plan for murder would be grotesque; genocide or other such words might be even better.
channelpenguin: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] channelpenguin 2025-08-07 08:17 am (UTC)(link)
Indeed I did. I should have use "one" but that has fallen out of casual use in English (but not in German!). Apologies.

Yes, genocide is a better word. By niggle, I mean that it was not truly clear to me that ALL those people are all advocating for the genocide of humanity. But certainly some are. So I meant that for me to quibble over me finding no explicit mention was "a niggle" not that the fact that some people have effectively genocidal plans is "a niggle"! Because that is NOT. And I DO believe that at at least some people have such plans.
Edited 2025-08-07 08:22 (UTC)
bens_dad: (Default)

Re: 5.

[personal profile] bens_dad 2025-08-07 07:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Sadly I don't think we can prosecute them for murder/attempted murder until the result occurs. Conspiracy to murder might be an option ...