The Ducker Method Of Purchasing Games

[andrewducker]

I can boil down my game-buying methodology to one sentence "Is it less than £10 on Steam?", but that would be a little _too_ simple. The actual decision-method is closer to "Is it less than £10 on Steam for a mainstream game with great reviews, or £5 for something Indie with great reviews, or £3 for something quirky that looks like it might be worth playing about with?"

When I posted yesterday that I was picking up Fallout 3, and whether it was worth picking up Morrowind and Oblivion for £5 each on top I received multiple messages from people saying "Buy Skyrim instead!", which to me felt like the height of pointlessness. I've already said that it's FO3 that I really want, and Skyrim is (a) a very different game, (b) twice the price and (c) still getting regular patches so that the dragons fly in the right direction.

People seemed to vie in actively putting down Morrowind (apparently so old-fashioned that one would need a monocle _and_ a penny farthing to play it) and Oblivion (so repetitive as to be unplayable), despite me remembering that when they came out people raved about how awesome they are. And, indeed, if I check the reviews they both get Game Of The Year awards from multiple places, 90-95% reviews, and general acclaim. But because everyone has now moved on to _this_ year's games, they aren't worth having.

As someone who has recently had huge amounts of fun playing Cave Story, a game that looks like this:

I can quite happily say "Fuck That".

While I am quite sure that Skyrim has fixed some of the things that bugged people about earlier games, and contains all sorts of shininess undreamt of back in 2002, it seems to me that people really enjoyed playing Morrowind, have produced all sorts of addons for it, and that if I can't get £5 out happiness out of it then I will be very, very surprised.

So, going back to the actual title of this post - my method is not to be so caught up that I can't wait a year for a game to drop in price, have a massive backlog of games that will quite happily keep me going* for numerous months, and realise that I will never play every game that I want to, so I will happily browse away at the massive amount of options that I have. Heck, I waited more than six months to play Portal 2 when it came out, and that was fine too (I even managed to remain unspoiled!).

*I'm halfway through Dragon Age, and was very-much enjoying it when my life imploded and I didn't have the attention span for it, have Mass Effect 2 and DA2 after that, then Fallout 3 to play. In the meantime Cave Story+ is my active game, with Defense Grid as a background snippet game, for when I have 15 minutes and want to pick up another medal. Batman:Arkham Asylum is after that, and then Bastion. Plus Julie and I had Sacred recommended to us as a fun co-op action-RPG. Oh, and I have non-gaming things I do for fun too.

Comments

[thedivinegoat]

I missed your earlier post, but I still play Oblivion and still enjoy it immensely. I've never played Morrowind so can't comment properly on it. I will say I read one comment on an Elder Scrolls forum, that Morrowind, there is less you can do, but what you can do goes very deep. Oblivion there is more you can do, but not to such a depth, and with Skyrim there is loads you can do, but with the depth of a puddle. I think that maybe it's a bit harsh to Skyrim, but having played both Oblivion and Skyrim, (and loved both) the basic point is true.

Plus the library of Mods, (I'm assuming you can mod games bought via Steam, I don't know) for Morrowind and Oblivion is so extensive the games can be made into anything you want them to be.

But as in all things YMMV.

[davidcook]

... I would have replied to your earlier post about Oblivion/Morrowind (to recommend them), except by the time I got to it, you'd already bought them :)

That said, I like both of them, and still play them every now and then (most recently a heavily-modded Morrowind).

I know you aren't too concerned about graphics, but I'd recommend getting some of the graphics upgrade mods for Morrowind anyway - eg Better Heads, Better Bodies, some of the clothes upgrades as well, and Morrowind Graphic Extender (that allows you to extend the view distance greatly - combine with modern hardware and levitation, and you can see vast expanses of the world).

To me, Morrowind is slightly more interesting to explore, especially if you have the Tribunal expansion. Exploring can be hazardous at lower levels, though - unlike Oblivion, encounters in MW aren't always matched to your level. On the other hand, levelling up is pretty easy, and there's a kind of "positive feedback" in the skills system - i.e. once you get reasonably good at a skill, it gets easier and easier to get better at it - rather unlike real life !

[andrewducker]

Cheers, I shall file that away for later!

[matgb]

Yup, pretty much. I've been drooling over 40K:Space Marine since we got a PS3. Got it in Game on sale at about 1/4 retail, still a bit more than I wanted but for a game I'd been hoping for for ages?

I suck at it, but...

Most of the games I buy (still buy the disks, not DL) are from places like CEX or the Game 2nd hand place (there was an independent local store but it closed), and never pay too much.

Holly's favourite game on all the computing stuff she has access to? Heroes of Might and Magic 3. That's, what, 15 years old? She'd rather play that than the 2nd Harry Potter Wii game that I bought her 1/3 off full price for xmas (actually bought after, naturally). Go figure.

[cairmen.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised people are recommending Skyrim.

Frankly, in my opinion it's the Casablanca moment for video games. I would tend to say - indeed, I have said, to several people - that if you have any interest in fantasy fiction, Skyrim is the game you MUST play, even if you've played no other game in the last 7 years.

Will it be as astonishing in a year's time, though? Probably, or at least close.

But if someone was asking me for film recommendations in 1942, and assuming such things existed, I'd still be saying "Go see Casablanca" rather than "Well, So Green Is My Valley's on DVD...".

[andrewducker]

I've heard "This is _the_ game!" about so many games, all of which are very good, that I don't really believe that there is any one game that is so much better than every other one.

It's like the threads whenever someone says "Games aren't art." that spring up - everyone has their own game which proves once and for all that they are, but they all seem to be different to each other.

If Skyrim _isn't_ astonishing in a year's time then that means that the astonishment was graphics related. And I've seen Skyrim being played on a good PC, and it was pretty, but it didn't change my life.

It what's amazing is the gameplay and the story, then those will still be there for me when I get there :->

[philmophlegm.livejournal.com]

I agree. (I made it my Game of the Year in my review of the year post here and it's very rare for my game of the year to be anything other than Football Manager.) You made the point rather more eloquently than I did though...

It's not about the graphics, which are great but not that much in advance of Oblivion if you applied a couple of texture mods. It's a whole variety of step-changes, but most of all it's the quantity of interesting content. Enough that each different player will only experience a few common events outside of the main plotline (which is by no means compulsory).

[fearmeforiampink]

If it's as astonishing in a year's time? Then andrewducker, and indeed probably myself as well, will enjoy it, and for a far lower price.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as him; I have a large number of good games I've bought cheap and have yet to play, I absolutely loved Prototype, and had got it for just a fiver, I recently got Human Revolution for a tenner — it's a good enough game from what I've seen and heard that I'm willing to get it for that, but for thirty quid? Nope.

There are rare exceptions; I was willing to get Arkham City for a mere 20 per cent off, but that's 'cause I really, really enjoyed Arkham Asylum.

If I had no other games, then yes, buying Skyrim now might well be a good idea. When I've… (quickly checks Steam) …Arkham City, Renegade Ops and Alice Returns to finish, Assassin's Creed, Aliens Versus Predator, Dead Space 1 & 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, EYE: Divine Cybermancy, Oblivion, From Dust, Ghostbusters, Just Cause 2, Orcs Must Die, The Force Unleashed, and Space Marine to basically start and play through? Skyrim can wait.

[vereybowring.livejournal.com]

Fallout 3 is quite good especially if you get the DLC's for it - Fallout New Vegas shouldn't be overlooked either I enjoy both.
Morrowind is fine too although a little dated in graphics and interface style.
Oblivion can be quite repetitive but then the much touted Skyrim I find much the same in that regard but much prettier. All games seem repetitive to me though, unsurprising since games are scripted things.

I've not played Morrowind too much but people have told me it's quite good. I enjoy Oblivion and Skyrim to equal extent and Fallout3 (and New Vegas) I have played to death as I find sniping people in the head at extremely long range somewhat satisfying.

I probably play far too many games but can't keep playing just one for any great length (got to LVL 36 on Skyrim before my interest waned) - currently I've been playing STO and it comes free to play on the 17th. Also went back to COH/COV recently since it is also free to play.

[andrewducker]

It's the GOTY of Fallout, so it has all of the DLC. Looking forward to New Vegas at some future point (once it's also a big bundle!)

[daveon.livejournal.com]

I was recommended Skyrim, having completed Halo, frankly, disappointing fast and I'm not feeling up to have 11 year olds continually frag me in multiplayer...

Anyway, I'm spellbound by it. I've probably played about 15 hours so far and I'm barely into the first few quests and just running around looking for things is amazing me.

[ckd]

My gaming is almost all on the PS3 these days; just finished the evil play through of inFamous 2. I'll almost certainly pick up Skyrim when it drops a notch or two in price and/or comes out in a nice GOTY edition with DLC included.

[johnbobshaun.livejournal.com]

I played Morrowind shortly after it was released. Despite the neat setting it left me cold. I played it for a few hours. I played Oblivion when it was released. It was all kinds of shiny and glorious. But the repetitive Oblivion gate stuff and broken leveling system angered me no end and I stopped playing after about ten hours.

I have played 40+ hours of Skyrim (which isn't much compared to some) and think it's one of the best games ever made.

I love Cave Story, heck I love anything Metroid-y really. I spent a portion of my Christmas break playing Chrono Trigger which is twenty years old. One of my favorite games of the last couple of years is VVVVVV and that could have been released 30 years ago. I have nothing against "old" games.

But Skyrim isn't really more of the same with a shiny coat of paint. It's the first time that a game like that has worked for me.

[andrewducker]

I shall look forward to playing it when it hits cheap. And hopefully it will blow away my scepticism :->

(I mean, I can't see how I can enjoy it _more_ than some other games that already completely maxed out my joymeter. But hopefully it can do likewise.)

[steer.livejournal.com]

Yes -- completely agree with you here. Morrowind I put in about 50 hours and never finished... not wow. Oblivion was shiny and gorgeous but got repetitive fast. Plus with both I'd bought the stupid add on packs as they were really cheap (which is so often a mistake because you end up doing "make work" quests not related to the main thing)... Skyrim feels a "step up", though I still love Dragon Age and Mass Effect series (for different things).

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

me I'm playing Dwarf Fortress which looks like this: http://afteractionreporter.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/dftutorial12.png

[andrewducker]

Dwarf Fortress is on my "If I ever break my spine and have a solid five years to dedicate to something." list :->

[ami-bender.livejournal.com]

I would also add doing a google search on prices to your list of checks. Steam often isnt the cheapest provider out there, although with a £10 limit, the difference may not be worth worrying about.

Incidently I have the same strategy. I will only get the games I want to play after they have been out for a while as there is always a queue of things in my to play box that will keep me entertained until the games are cheap and include all the add ons in the price.

[fearmeforiampink]

It's not just about the price. It's that Steam's DRM isn't annoying, that I don't have to keep track of the CDs, and that I have all my games under one thing which makes them easy to keep track of. That combined with the fact it does things pretty damn cheap if you're willing to wait and choose your moment, is what makes it the best option.

Admitedly, I'm talking for myself their, but I'm guessing that andrewducker feels roughly the same.

[soon_lee]

Skyrim prompted me to get a new PC expressly so I can play it. So far, I highly recommend it: it's that enjoyably immersive. Oblivion (which necessitated a videocard upgrade) was mildly disappointing despite the prettiness; the repetitiveness made it boring (nice face, shame about the personality). Until Skyrim, Morrowind (to which many hours were expended) was my favourite of that series.

In recent times, I've been doing mostly retro-gaming e.g. Mechwarrior 2 (which is still very playable), so wiz-bang graphics are not as important to me.

Your game purchasing approach seems to be eminently sensible.

[fearmeforiampink]

I have Cave Story, but so far have been unable to open the door in the cave you start in, and so got distracted and gave up on it.

[andrewducker]

Press "down" to activate objects, open doors and talk to people.

No, not even slightly intuitive.

[kurosau.livejournal.com]

I disagree with your assessment that people are saying Morrowind and Oblivion aren't good on the basis that they're old. Not because your general observation is a bad one, but because it ignores the more relevant facts in the situation.

I'd say that Morrowind and Oblivion aren't worth getting because they aren't very good games. Bethesda has worked hard to make the Elder Scrolls series a sandbox. Along the way they've made a series of not so good looking games with some pretty bad gameplay systems and overall lacking narrative and game design. They're fun because we can do all kinds of stuff in them, but as the whole product goes, they aren't that hot.

But then you've got Skyrim. At the very least, it's a lot prettier than what came before, and with the improved gameplay it's also a lot better of a game than what came before. It still shows off it's roots, but it stands head and shoulders above the previous games.

So yes, you should get Skyrim, and I would recommend giving Morrowind and Oblivion a pass.

Also, I'd argue that the gaming media is basically useless when it comes to deciding if a game is alright. It takes a lot of indepth investigation into a variety of gaming journalism sources to pull out useful data, and you definitely won't find anything useful in GotY lists. See: SWTOR is already the GotY MMO for 2011 despite only having been out for less than two weeks.

[andrewducker]

I know numerous people who have been playing the beta for ages, and they all agree with SWTOR being the best MMO of 2011 :->

[naath.livejournal.com]

I fell head-over-heels into SpaceChem (if I start it up I'll not drop out of it for hours, even forgetting things like food)... but I doubt I could even get started in Skyrim for all its supposed shinyness. Bizarely (for someone who hates most games) I read quite a lot of game *reviews*, and could probably bore for England on the topic of games-as-art or "why yahtzee really should quit a job he clearly hates" (:-p)...

[andrewducker]

I do sometimes wonder why he still plays game...

[octopoid-horror.livejournal.com]

A game that got 90% five years ago would not necessarily get 90% now. I love text adventures/interactive fiction but some of the hugely influential and adored classics are postively painful to play today. Some of them can be completed in 30 moves or so, are painfully linear or have puzzles that are ridiculously obscure and rely on out-of-game knowledge or simply brute forcing them. I enjoyed the Ishar RPG , back in the day, but frequently you could die in the first minute or so of starting the game, and this was accepted because games at that point WERE that much harder to a large degree. Times change. I wouldn't enjoy that now because I don't have entire summers of doing nothing to throw at a game.

The flaws in Oblivion were complained about at the time and were arguably not necessarily taken into account in a lot of reviews (since reviews can be a] bought and b] reviewers would not always have played the whole game - you could easily play for fifteen hours before getting to the repetitive section) and also because while Oblivion was better than other RPGs at the time so that flaws could be ignored at the time, the flaws were specifically addressed for the next game in the series, while leaving much of the rest the same. The main gameplay mechanic that Skyrim lacks, compared to Oblivion, is something that was relatively late-game and only relevant for magic-users. Compared to Morrowind, I'd say that both Oblivion and Skyrim are far more accessible and playable in a more casual way by people who don't have hours and hours a day to play. If you look at reviews of Skyrim, you'll see this mentioned - that while Oblivion seemed good, there were problems that were overlooked because of the time it came out, but now seem like a big deal.

Similarly, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay was a great system when it came out. Now, the WFRP style critical hit tables that are used in Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader seem pretty stupid when compared against more modern RPGs which don't feel the need for that kind of thing. They slow down the game and add nothing that a competent GM or player can't do themselves - they're a legacy from a time when RPGs were written differently.

GTA 3 was amazing when it came out but Vice City, San Andreas and (sort-of) IV improve on it in every way and unless you're actually wanting to play all the GTA games then if you're just wanting a cool driving-around-and-shooting-people game, VC or SA or IV is a much better option. The Sims was fun and popular, but (from my admittedly limited experience of both) The Sims 2 is simply better. The same with Assassin's Creed to AC2 and Saints Row to SR2. The originals were good, but the sequels were better because they improved on the same core experience and mechanics.

Of course, this isn't always true (Mass Effect 2 is a radically different style of gameplay to the first game, for example and I can understand why that put people off) - and it depends what you want from a game. Morrowind is certainly a lot more challenging and less accessible at the start than Oblivion and Morrowind, and you can break the game more easily if you try. If that kind of experience is what you want from a game, fair enough. But if you're keen to play Morrowind because it was well regarded at the time, and nostalgically so now - why start there? Why not play Daggerfall too? There are people who see that as the peak of the Elder Scrolls series, and it's free. Heck, it has 750 times as many NPCs as Morrowind and a huge amount more to do.

[andrewducker]

I didn't realise Daggerfall was free. I assumed it wasn't compatible with modern PCs at all, to be honest.

[steer.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, of the games you mention, Dragon Age is excellent... I love the in between character chit chat.

Dragon Age II is somewhat disappointing... there's an important thing with Dragon Age II -- basically they simplified the interface hugely... now one thing they did was to make it so that you got a list of all quests on a main map and where they were set. If you are like me you will try to play somewhat efficiently so you'll go onto the map page, hit the location with most quests and follow the arrows. This will take you to quests. This seems logical. It took me 20 hours of play to realise why this broke my game experience. Because I was just following arrows, arriving and "following quest" I never actually bothered to remember or get involved with the storyline. Half the time I couldn't actually remember what I was supposed to be doing in a given location but because of the simplified interface that really doesn't matter. So, you ended up going around killing lots of stuff and then some conversation would happen that was mainly spent thinking "what is going on, who is that and what are they doing?" So my advice for DAII is that you should play it inefficiently -- that is, follow up side quests in order until you complete them rather than doing all quests in an area. That way the side quests will be meaningful and interesting rather than semi-random "conversations".

A lot of people were disappointed with DAII because the plot was "mundane" -- that is, in most of these things you are the chosen hero who saves the world. DAII is "low fantasy" rather than "high fantasy" -- without giving spoilers you're not the hero who saves the world. You're a guy making his way through the world and doing some good on the way.

In DA, Morrowind, Oblivion and (I guess) Skyrim, the world will end (or at least be incredibly nasty) without you. In DA II this is not really the case... a few people found this disappointing.

Mass Effect 2 is just incredibly good actually. What I love about the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series is the interplay between your team... the way you get chit chat happening between them. It's worth the price of admission just to hear this random chit chat -- it makes the characters seem fully realised.

This doesn't happen in Elder Scrolls or Fallout 3 series games...

Bastion is a great little game and well worth playing just for the music and voice over. It's not an epic but it's memorable.

[spacelem.livejournal.com]

I love Cave Story! I managed to save Curly, but I couldn't beat the final boss :/