Delicious LiveJournal Links for 5-25-2010

[andrewducker]

• Mass Effect movie deal done
  (tags: movies games)
• Stirling builds first council homes since 1985
  And a good thing too.
  (tags: society scotland housing)
• What happened at the end of Flesh and Stone was sexual assault
  (tags: assault sex DrWho)

Comments

[marrog.livejournal.com]

What happened at the end of Flesh and Stone was sexual assault

Good grief, what a patronising article.

Beyond that, though, who's saying it wasn't sexual assault (genuine question, not sarcasm)? Do good people not do bad things in DW any more? I weep for the fan culture that made someone feel that this was a necessary thing to point out. Of course it was an assault. Of course she behaved inappropriately, funny or not. And I thought the scene was quite uncomfortable, and meant to be so.

At the time, in fact, I was pleased to see just how uncomfortable it was - just how well it established the Doctor as off-limits, as the victim of advances that he was incredibly not-up-for. However ambigious his reaction was in some respects, my overall impression was one of profound discomfort on his part with the whole affair and after RTD's space-tart-Doctor I found it quite refreshing.

We're not meant to think Amy Pond is in any way a perfect human being, and I felt that, so far, the depiction of the juxtaposition between the empowering vs negative aspects of her sexually agressive personality has been pretty even-handed.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

"Examine what you have invested in rape culture."


Oh, very much, dear.

Flesh and Stone

[zornhau.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to work out why I'm uncomfortable this sort of discourse, which seems to pop up on the Internet a lot at the moment.

I think ultimately, it's because it's criminalising crass.

IIRC, in the real world, a lot of sexual communication is either nuanced and non-verbal, and most initial encounters do not start with a conversation about consent, nor do people stop off to discuss the next move: "I say, would it be OK if we moved from this relatively chaste kissing to using our tongues?"

This sort of discourse is saying: "If you get it wrong, try for a kiss or touch an arm or a leg when in fact that kiss or touch was not wanted, you are not merely a jerk, you are an assailant."

I'm trying to imagine a culture where no man or woman would ever accidentally cross this line... presumably one where everybody was at one with their sexuality, 100% assertive, verbal, never drank or frequented places with loud music...

Now, to persist, that's different.

Reading the transcript, I'd say that the Doctor wasn't assaulted because the power differential was in his favour, and because she didn't grab his genitals. That doesn't make her behaviour acceptible, or reasonable. However, being bloody annoying is not the same as being criminal.

[meaningrequired.livejournal.com]

I resent social norms that the media present.

I understand that what I'm about to say will incur a lot of difference of opinion.

I fear, that it showed that its okay to come onto someone sexually, despite their protests. I fear that it showed that this behaviour is associated with being admired, feisty and intelligent.

I wish that the media was more responsible.

[zz]

I despair at this sort of thing. A lot of people I know, and their chosen media, seem to espouse the idea that no-one must ever be discomforted or offended even for a moment. Not having to trivially suffer other people's imperfections or different points of view is not a fundamental human right. The logical conclusion seems to be no-one ever even touching each other without signed contracts and chaperones.

Although it was nice to have the genders reversed for once, and men treated with the same kid gloves as this topic usually treats women.

As mentioned in other comments, the problem with the term sexual assault is that the practical definition may happily be vague, there's also a legal meaning, which can't be. Accusing someone of the former is indistinguishable from accusing them of the latter. There's a slight difference in consequences between a "sort yourself out" friend's talking to and a sexual offence conviction.

Yes, she might have gone a bit too far. No, it won't have troubled him for more than a few seconds.

What happened at the end of Flesh and Stone was sexual assault

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I don't feel like I really have a right to comment on it, but my impression is that something that might be seen as sexual assault might fall between two categories (or somewhere on a continuum). If Person A touches me unwantedly, I may not mind, because although I'm not really attracted to them, I'm not UNattracted to them, and it's not inherently unpleasant, and I feel like Person A isn't going to pursue the issue at length, or with intimidating forcefulness. To some extent, the issue is that I still feel in control. Whereas if Person B does a similar thing, I may feel scared or threatened.

The question seems to be, when are those cases? One generalisation is that case B is sufficiently prevalent or sufficiently bad, we need to avoid any risk of it we ever can. Another generalisation is that man->woman is much more often B and woman->man is much more often A. (This is commonly useful, but not so prevalent that we can just accept it.)

To me, the case in Doctor Who seems to be case A. Some people heavily disagree, but it seems like the doctor is uncomfortable, but not significantly more so than if Amy had merely declared her feelings, because he's worried about how they're going to feel, but doesn't actually suffer much fear that the situation will end with anything other than him being in control.

If I'm right, it's good to realise that it presents something that in other circumstances would be very bad, and people disagree whether it's so bad that things like it should be verboten also. But may or may not be problematic in itself.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned the entire argument of it being a sexual 'assault' committed by Amy is invalidated by the fact the Doctor kisses her back. And then he decides no no, you're getting married, we can't do this.

[blearyboy.livejournal.com]

Holy crap!

New council houses in Stirling!