I don't see the joke as saying that all Jews are zionists. I see it as saying that the people doing it are Jewish - and the massive majority of them are, particularly as Arabic citizens are exempt from the draft. He's extremely angry about what he sees as an apartheid system, and the Jewishness is a major part of that.
He might, but that still doesn't excuse his joke. He's right in calling attention to the problem, but the way he does is wrong. If being Jewish was the sole part of it, he would be right. It's not so it's racial stereotyping, which makes him wrong.
I can't understand why Jeff Dunham is so hugely popular for the same reason. His material consists mostly of racial stereotyping and is rather offensive because of it.
I didn't see any racial stereotyping. He didn't say "The jews are like..." or "How very Jewish to.." He said that they were being attacked by angry Jews. And he's right. They are. There's no general statement that all jews are involved, or that it's a general Jewish trait, just a statement that they are being attacked by angry Jewish people. Which is factually accurate.
I don't have a problem with his views on this problem. I do have a problem with his jokes. His explanation comes after the fact. Based solely on the jokes, which I don't find funny to begin with, he implies that the only thing the Israeli army does is kick woman in the back and that the Jews are responsible for the situation in Palestine.
Fact is, it's not a Jew - Palestinian problem, it's a Israeli - Palestine problem. If you constitute race into something where it doesn't belong, and I don't think it does in this particular case, you're doing it wrong.
Not only that, it's a rather one-sided view of the problem. He seems to forget that both the PLO and Hamas aren't really friendly people either.
Israel is a nation founded on race. You cannot take the fact that it is incredibly highly Jewish out of the equation. The fact that, for instance, non-Jews are not included in national service should make this incredibly obvious.
Yes, Israel is founded on race, but ut not all people of the particular race live in that country. You don't speak for all Jews if you speak for all Israelis. Nor are all Israelis Jewish.
Nor is race the only cause of the problems. The Jewish religion, which is tightly bound with race, is part of the problem facing the state of Israel. Just as much as it's Islamic and Christian problem because of the holy sites in Jerusalem.
Franky made a joke about Jews. He should have made a joke about Israelis. Just as in the first case. Wouldn't have made it funny, but at least it would have made it less bad.
And this is different how? If you reference the fact that they're Jewish, you obviously think it's relevant. Why do it otherwise? He doesn't do it in the first joke, so why in the second one?
I see it as being in the same vein as, say, "I've never met a nice South African" by Spitting Image. Which was clearly wrong in any kind of literal sense, as there were many perfectly nice white South Africans, plus a lot of Black South Africans who the song wasn't about at all. But anyone listening to the song knew not to take it entirely literally, and it was clear that it wasn't, for instance, talking about Nelson Mandela.
You see it as increasing the negativity about Jews, which is clearly a bad thing.
If he had said Israeli that would have also implied the minority of citizens of Israel who are not Jewish as well as the majority who are Jewish, which might have prevented the joke from working (if indeed, it did work).
Perhaps he should have said "Israeli Jew who does not actively oppose their government's policies"? Or "Zionist"?
Makes me wonder about Spitting Image's "Never Met a Nice South African" and where Nelson Mandela would have fit in there, or any other South African who wasn't a white pro-apartheid type for that matter.
Amusingly my weekend copy of the Morning Star had a set of ten reasons not to vote LibDem. :-)
I agree with all ten of the above reasons, this Labour govt has been a disappointment. But then UK politics at the present (or indeed, ever) isn't promising for a socialist voter, consequently there are plenty of reasons not to vote for all three parties.
Labour govts are always a disappointment, but they just about get my vote because IMHO they are still the least worst option that has a chance of affecting the outcome. Even Ramsey Mac achieved something worth having.
The problem is that this is a short term solution. If you want socialist representation then you need Proportional Representation, which was the reason that the SSP had 6 seats in Scotland (until they tore themselves to bits).
And which party gets 50% of the vote? Labour and the Conservatives are quite happy with getting 30 to 40% if it is the right 30 to 40% that gives them a FPTP majority.
Re nordic tax mix -- they're letting people keep more of what they earn, but taxing more when you spend? I don't understand all the follow-on consequences. I'm sure it's very Anti-American though, not letting people consume. Though heh, they have sales tax.
Re: Frankie Boyle. It seemed like what he was quoted as "kicked by a Jew" which is not explicitly racist against Jews, because it suggests some stereotypes about Jews, but not necessarily bad ones. And obviously, drawing attention to the bad things which have been done to Palestinians is good if also a difficult topic for humour. But OTOH, lots and lots of people DO make the conflation of "jew" = "evil" and "zionist", so I think it should be obvious to a reasonable person that saying that was going to make lots of Jewish people feel really awful. Of course, I don't know how offensive something should be to be banned from the BBC.
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andrewducker) wrote2010-05-04 12:01 pm
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Not all Jews are pro-Israel, or supportive of its policies or politics.
(Userpic to point out I have no dog in this particular fight, but I do get perturbed by generalisations about religions.)
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I can't understand why Jeff Dunham is so hugely popular for the same reason. His material consists mostly of racial stereotyping and is rather offensive because of it.
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Fact is, it's not a Jew - Palestinian problem, it's a Israeli - Palestine problem. If you constitute race into something where it doesn't belong, and I don't think it does in this particular case, you're doing it wrong.
Not only that, it's a rather one-sided view of the problem. He seems to forget that both the PLO and Hamas aren't really friendly people either.
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Nor is race the only cause of the problems. The Jewish religion, which is tightly bound with race, is part of the problem facing the state of Israel. Just as much as it's Islamic and Christian problem because of the holy sites in Jerusalem.
Franky made a joke about Jews. He should have made a joke about Israelis. Just as in the first case. Wouldn't have made it funny, but at least it would have made it less bad.
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Even if it's factually correct and does play a part in the general problem.
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I see it as being in the same vein as, say, "I've never met a nice South African" by Spitting Image. Which was clearly wrong in any kind of literal sense, as there were many perfectly nice white South Africans, plus a lot of Black South Africans who the song wasn't about at all. But anyone listening to the song knew not to take it entirely literally, and it was clear that it wasn't, for instance, talking about Nelson Mandela.
You see it as increasing the negativity about Jews, which is clearly a bad thing.
Call it a day?
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Only if it's actually a day and relevant to the issue at hand. ;)
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Perhaps he should have said "Israeli Jew who does not actively oppose their government's policies"? Or "Zionist"?
Makes me wonder about Spitting Image's "Never Met a Nice South African" and where Nelson Mandela would have fit in there, or any other South African who wasn't a white pro-apartheid type for that matter.
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I agree with all ten of the above reasons, this Labour govt has been a disappointment. But then UK politics at the present (or indeed, ever) isn't promising for a socialist voter, consequently there are plenty of reasons not to vote for all three parties.
Labour govts are always a disappointment, but they just about get my vote because IMHO they are still the least worst option that has a chance of affecting the outcome. Even Ramsey Mac achieved something worth having.
They only ever just about get my vote ...
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the "most popular male colors" made me laugh for several minutes.
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